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[webadict]

.Back in the day, ace in hole used to proc on hit abilities,
So massive ap+ lichbbane cait scored one hit kills on teemo all day.
Muffin traps hit hard with ap!

This sounds retarded, why would you go AP Cait and Lich Bane when you could go AD Cait and go Trinity Force? AP Cait now would need a Nashor's Tooth and probably Wit's End and then DFG, Gunblade, Morellonomicon and then w/e boots.

----

Runaan's Hurricane can be decent on ranged bruisers, in teamfights they just do so much damage. Quinn, Teemo, Kayle  can be pretty deadly in team-fights if they build a little bit tanky. For bot lane champs then it's deadly as hell with Twitch, so much poison for his expunge to just go crazy, a well timed ambush can let Twitch 1vs3 a team without having to use his ulti with Runaans. I want to try it on a tanky Urgot top though, apply his passive on enemies in a teamfight reducing damage 3 champs do by 15%, that could be enough to win teamfights.

Lich Bane does more than Triforce by a ton, since Lich Bane dealt 100% of your AP back then. So, Lich Bane + something ridiculous (700+ AP) for maximum damage.

And, seriously, please don't buy Runaan's. I'm telling you that you simply do more damage by building other items. It may seem like a good idea, but that Runaan's is taking a very valuable spot in your items, and not giving you much in return. It might work in some cases, but you're typically fed enough that it's not usually the item helping.

Kog'Maw good to take aspd on, good, I like stacking aspd. hithithithithithithithithit

Although this leads to another question, how do you determine when a character is good for stacking aspd as opposed to attack damage? For Kog'Maw the W has percentile damage so I get that, is it just when they have a particuclarly nasty on hit effect?

And another unrelated thing, spirit stone items (spirit of the ancient golem etc), I've heard they're good for pretty much everyone, is this true? I enjoy having high regens, so this is fairly relevant to me.

Actually, this is a good question. The easiest way to figure this out is to look at their skillset, and I'll show you examples: Caitlyn, Graves, Tristana, and Vayne.
Caitlyn has two very powerful AD skills, a passive that deals 150% damage after a number of shots, long range, but no steroid. This allows her to function very well with building more AD than AS. Her midgame falls off because of this, since she has no built-in steroid to balance her out, she'll be lopsided one way or the other, but in the end, she'll end up with a fair bit of both. Typically, grabbing a Bloodthirster first on her will allow her to deal good damage with her Q and R, whereas grabbing AS first... well, doesn't help her much on anything. Her late game is great though, since that damage booster and range is very poignant in the late game.

Graves has two very powerful AD-heavy skills and a built in AS boost, but short range. Since he has a built-in steroid, he can typically cover his midgame pretty well, building straight damage until he really needs his AS. However, he falls off late game, since he's a shorter range ADC.

Tristana has zero AD skills, an AS steroid, and a scaling range. Since Tristana has zero scaling, most of her early game damage is magic. Her burst damage is quite fearsome early, but midgame, she has nothing because of this, since none of her skills scale with AD. However, because she has that great AS skill and scaling range, the later in the game she gets, the better AD is on her. Early on, she's sort of underpowered, since she really needs those items, but when you see a 6 item Tristana, you're probably going to die. Tristana's early and mid game are garbage due to this, so... it's really a matter of preference. While you're certainly free to grab BotRK, grabbing IE is not bad, since she's an AAer.

Vayne has one AD skill, one AA booster, one on-hit ability, and an AD steroid. Vayne is... scary. That's all there is to say. Since she has no real way to poke someone with skills, she relies completely on AA. This is meant to make her very vulnerable in lane, as an ADC with poke should be whittling Vayne down while she tries to farm. Unfortunately, while this should make her weak until late in the game, Vayne's ultimate sort of evens the playing field, giving her an AD boost to her skills. The on-hit is more for tank-busting, but still helps kill targets, and her AA booster is immensely powerful. What does that mean for building on Vayne? Well... everything, really. She is actually okay with building both. Her ult naturally boosts her AD (not by much, but it's still something), so some AS is good, but her tumble naturally boosts her AD by a percentage, so some AD is good. And since she's on-hit, you'll typically see a BotRK as her first item, giving her, again, both.

Overall, this just means, you know, look at what your character scales with and think, but when in doubt, build damage if you're a carry and health/resistances if you're a tank.

[Chaoswizkid]

Yeah, AS on-hit is not for every champ. In fact, I've only seen two actually pull it off well: Kog'Maw and Teemo. I don't know why Teemo was good with it, since I've never played Teemo, but I think his poison attacks might stack or something? /shrug

AS is really useful, but AS on-hit builds for pretty much anyone else is not more viable than building straight up AD with a side of AS. This is especially true since Madred's and Malady were removed and AD carries just get BotRK anyway.

[Frumple]

Nah, teemo's doesn't stack. It just hurts like the begeesus. Maxed out, his E gives a hefty 50+30% AP scale on every attack, disregarding the DoT it inflicts. Fits bloody perfectly with nashor's (On hit becomes 65+45% AP scale. Add spellsword... 65+50% AP. Is a little wonderful, hoho.), among other things.

Extra hits before the DoT wears off does refresh the duration, though. Hitting more often doesn't exactly hurt.

[Sharp]

.Back in the day, ace in hole used to proc on hit abilities,
So massive ap+ lichbbane cait scored one hit kills on teemo all day.
Muffin traps hit hard with ap!

This sounds retarded, why would you go AP Cait and Lich Bane when you could go AD Cait and go Trinity Force? AP Cait now would need a Nashor's Tooth and probably Wit's End and then DFG, Gunblade, Morellonomicon and then w/e boots.

----

Runaan's Hurricane can be decent on ranged bruisers, in teamfights they just do so much damage. Quinn, Teemo, Kayle  can be pretty deadly in team-fights if they build a little bit tanky. For bot lane champs then it's deadly as hell with Twitch, so much poison for his expunge to just go crazy, a well timed ambush can let Twitch 1vs3 a team without having to use his ulti with Runaans. I want to try it on a tanky Urgot top though, apply his passive on enemies in a teamfight reducing damage 3 champs do by 15%, that could be enough to win teamfights.

Lich Bane does more than Triforce by a ton, since Lich Bane dealt 100% of your AP back then. So, Lich Bane + something ridiculous (700+ AP) for maximum damage.

And, seriously, please don't buy Runaan's. I'm telling you that you simply do more damage by building other items. It may seem like a good idea, but that Runaan's is taking a very valuable spot in your items, and not giving you much in return. It might work in some cases, but you're typically fed enough that it's not usually the item helping.

And Trinity Force did 150% of your AD and Ace in the Hole does extra 200% of your AD so you have 350% with AD and only 100% with AP with a tiny bit from base AD.

And there are champs where Runaan's works as I stated. 70% AS + 100% damage on autoattacks (if 3 targets) is nothing to scoff at, it's great for the tanky ranged champs in teamfights as typically it will be the AD and AP carry being focused so Runaan's allows some flexibility, toss in a BotRK and your just shredding people.

Of course it doesn't mean it's always the best item to build, it is situational like most items but it most certainly isn't useless.

[webadict]

Lich Bane does more than Triforce by a ton, since Lich Bane dealt 100% of your AP back then. So, Lich Bane + something ridiculous (700+ AP) for maximum damage.

And, seriously, please don't buy Runaan's. I'm telling you that you simply do more damage by building other items. It may seem like a good idea, but that Runaan's is taking a very valuable spot in your items, and not giving you much in return. It might work in some cases, but you're typically fed enough that it's not usually the item helping.

And Trinity Force did 150% of your AD and Ace in the Hole does extra 200% of your AD so you have 350% with AD and only 100% with AP with a tiny bit from base AD.

And there are champs where Runaan's works as I stated. 70% AS + 100% damage on autoattacks (if 3 targets) is nothing to scoff at, it's great for the tanky ranged champs in teamfights as typically it will be the AD and AP carry being focused so Runaan's allows some flexibility, toss in a BotRK and your just shredding people.

Of course it doesn't mean it's always the best item to build, it is situational like most items but it most certainly isn't useless.

Triforce does 150% of your base AD. Not total. Otherwise, people would build it on every ADC.

And, there's really no champion where Runaan's is better. I promise. ADCs will typically be outclassed if they have it. Tanky characters will be sacrificing a lot to use it, such as valuable stats.

The problem with the item is that it grants only AS, a stat valuable to ADCs, some bruisers, and very few APs. ADCs should never need Runaan's, since if you're far enough ahead to buy the item, you should already have won or be winning. Doing AoE on-hits (Since they do 50% of your AD, non-crit [150-200ish]) might increase your damage slightly, but at the cost of your single target damage, which limits your capacity to duel. There's also the side effect that the passive is unreliable. If you're buying it on ranged bruisers, like I guess... I don't really know, Teemo or Quinn? Then, you're sacrificing tank stats or damage stats for this item. Just to maybe spread your poison or on-hits to maybe two or three other people. But, grabbing additional damage or tank stats would've done far more in the battle instead. If you're buying it on a ranged AP like Kayle or Teemo, then you're still sacrificing damage to apply more AoE, which typically doesn't need to happen.

You simply have to be sacrificing something to buy this item. The AS alone makes the item fairly useless. If the item prioritized champions, it'd help. If the item gave more than AS, it'd help. But, it doesn't do either, so you're stuck with an item that is inferior to other items stat-wise and typically passive-wise.

Like... I don't know, maybe you could build a Teemo build where he's able to hit more with on-hits than AP, but I just doubt it. And since the on-hits are the only reason to get Runaan's, you'd have to make it spread like wildfire.

[Sharp]

Triforce does 150% of your base AD. Not total. Otherwise, people would build it on every ADC.

And, there's really no champion where Runaan's is better. I promise. ADCs will typically be outclassed if they have it. Tanky characters will be sacrificing a lot to use it, such as valuable stats.

The problem with the item is that it grants only AS, a stat valuable to ADCs, some bruisers, and very few APs. ADCs should never need Runaan's, since if you're far enough ahead to buy the item, you should already have won or be winning. Doing AoE on-hits (Since they do 50% of your AD, non-crit [150-200ish]) might increase your damage slightly, but at the cost of your single target damage, which limits your capacity to duel. There's also the side effect that the passive is unreliable. If you're buying it on ranged bruisers, like I guess... I don't really know, Teemo or Quinn? Then, you're sacrificing tank stats or damage stats for this item. Just to maybe spread your poison or on-hits to maybe two or three other people. But, grabbing additional damage or tank stats would've done far more in the battle instead. If you're buying it on a ranged AP like Kayle or Teemo, then you're still sacrificing damage to apply more AoE, which typically doesn't need to happen.

You simply have to be sacrificing something to buy this item. The AS alone makes the item fairly useless. If the item prioritized champions, it'd help. If the item gave more than AS, it'd help. But, it doesn't do either, so you're stuck with an item that is inferior to other items stat-wise and typically passive-wise.

Like... I don't know, maybe you could build a Teemo build where he's able to hit more with on-hits than AP, but I just doubt it. And since the on-hits are the only reason to get Runaan's, you'd have to make it spread like wildfire.

Crap I forgot about that on Tri-Force xD.

Pretty much for most champs when they are buying late-game items they are sacrificing something for something else. Sacrificing some straight up damage for split damage can be useful especially if enemy team comp has a lot of diving through team power in which case you don't need duelling but just massive firepower and no late item can increase your AD by 100% (not including on-hit effects) like Runaan's. Twitch is an absolute monster with Runaan's, the ult is nice but doesn't mean you will hit all enemy champs while Runaan's will let you hit nearby champs, add on the poison stacks so you can get 3 enemy champs with 5 stacks of poison very quickly.

In-regards to prioritising champions, that doesn't really matter, Runaan's is good for teamfights where typically your not going to have minions, in the cases where you do have minions nearby then it will still be killing them quickly as well as getting more effective lifesteal from them as minions typically have less armour then champions, lifesteal + Runaan's is very effective, your pretty much doubling your lifesteal and doubling your damage.

70% AS and doing up to 100% additional AD as well as on-hit effects I would say it is pretty cost effective on many champs, heck I run it on Graves and I practically am running 140% AS all the time because I can spam quickdraw with it. It's not great on long range champs although it does allow Cait to spam headshots typically you should be waaay back as Cait, although Twitch can make enemies evaporate with it.

I'm not saying it's going to be the best item in all situations but you are crazy to think that it's useless when compared with other items.

[Skyrunner]

I just had the weirdest game ever. XD

Yi and Teemo are ridiculous. Infinite mushrooms and troll escapes and kills for the former, super-backdooring and killing extremely fast for the latter.
Meanwhile,LeBlanc falls off like a lead balloon. That was me, spent most of my time derping around.

[webadict]

Triforce does 150% of your base AD. Not total. Otherwise, people would build it on every ADC.

And, there's really no champion where Runaan's is better. I promise. ADCs will typically be outclassed if they have it. Tanky characters will be sacrificing a lot to use it, such as valuable stats.

The problem with the item is that it grants only AS, a stat valuable to ADCs, some bruisers, and very few APs. ADCs should never need Runaan's, since if you're far enough ahead to buy the item, you should already have won or be winning. Doing AoE on-hits (Since they do 50% of your AD, non-crit [150-200ish]) might increase your damage slightly, but at the cost of your single target damage, which limits your capacity to duel. There's also the side effect that the passive is unreliable. If you're buying it on ranged bruisers, like I guess... I don't really know, Teemo or Quinn? Then, you're sacrificing tank stats or damage stats for this item. Just to maybe spread your poison or on-hits to maybe two or three other people. But, grabbing additional damage or tank stats would've done far more in the battle instead. If you're buying it on a ranged AP like Kayle or Teemo, then you're still sacrificing damage to apply more AoE, which typically doesn't need to happen.

You simply have to be sacrificing something to buy this item. The AS alone makes the item fairly useless. If the item prioritized champions, it'd help. If the item gave more than AS, it'd help. But, it doesn't do either, so you're stuck with an item that is inferior to other items stat-wise and typically passive-wise.

Like... I don't know, maybe you could build a Teemo build where he's able to hit more with on-hits than AP, but I just doubt it. And since the on-hits are the only reason to get Runaan's, you'd have to make it spread like wildfire.

Crap I forgot about that on Tri-Force xD.

Pretty much for most champs when they are buying late-game items they are sacrificing something for something else. Sacrificing some straight up damage for split damage can be useful especially if enemy team comp has a lot of diving through team power in which case you don't need duelling but just massive firepower and no late item can increase your AD by 100% (not including on-hit effects) like Runaan's. Twitch is an absolute monster with Runaan's, the ult is nice but doesn't mean you will hit all enemy champs while Runaan's will let you hit nearby champs, add on the poison stacks so you can get 3 enemy champs with 5 stacks of poison very quickly.

In-regards to prioritising champions, that doesn't really matter, Runaan's is good for teamfights where typically your not going to have minions, in the cases where you do have minions nearby then it will still be killing them quickly as well as getting more effective lifesteal from them as minions typically have less armour then champions, lifesteal + Runaan's is very effective, your pretty much doubling your lifesteal and doubling your damage.

70% AS and doing up to 100% additional AD as well as on-hit effects I would say it is pretty cost effective on many champs, heck I run it on Graves and I practically am running 140% AS all the time because I can spam quickdraw with it. It's not great on long range champs although it does allow Cait to spam headshots typically you should be waaay back as Cait, although Twitch can make enemies evaporate with it.

I'm not saying it's going to be the best item in all situations but you are crazy to think that it's useless when compared with other items.

I don't know what else to tell you, man. Runaan's is a terrible item. It's like... the Executioner's Calling of items. The Elisa's Miracle. It's just not as good as any other item. I could try to explain in a million different ways, but there will always be a better item in every situation except the one where the enemy team decides to bunch up into the smallest ball of enemies, letting you attack them.

70% AS Just doesn't cut it. You could get 50% AS, 30% Crit, and some free MS for a little more. You lose 20% AS, which is, let's be generous, 150/170=88% of your DPS in number of hits, but you gain 30% crit, which, even assuming no IE or additional crit, gives you 100% AD vs. 70% * AD + 30% * 2 * AD = 130% increased DPS, at the 88% time, gives 114% DPS to single targets, which scales up with Crit! And AS! Granted, that isn't your 200% DPS factoring in Runaan's passive (split between 3 targets), but that can't be relied on. There's no reason to assume that you can ever get that additional damage, and that uncertainty vs. guaranteed damage isn't worth it, to me. I'd much rather kill a single target going for me or dueling me than a whole group, since if I'm dueling a group, I'm going to lose anyhow, unless I'm already so fed that they were planning on dying anyway.

Like, if I factor in a full build, I bet I could get really close. Heck 150% would be close enough.

In fact, that's what I'm doing. Straight up, Graves, since he's super easy to build.

PD vs. RH: BT, IE, LW, AS boots, and, again, generous, BotRK. If you wish to switch any of these items, let me know. I'd be very willing to drop the Blade, since it's a stupid buy on him, for something like a Scimitar, which he'd love. Or, I suppose you might want to drop the IE on your build. I'm not sure. It's just easier to assume the same.

IE adds 250% Crit.D, 25% Crit. AS Boots add 20%, BotRK gives 40% AS.
PD: 50% AS, 30% Crit
RH: 70% AS
Graves: +49.3% AS at lvl 18

RH: 75% * AD + 25% * 2.5 * AD = 137.5% AD + 5% Current + (50% AD + 5% Current x2 on others)
AS is 279.3%
PD: 45% * AD + 55% * 2.5 * AD = 182.5% AD + 5% Current
AS is 259.3% = ~93% AS

Single Target difference: 23% increased.
AoE difference? You've got me there. You technically do about 80% more damage. But, this isn't necessarily to the enemies you want. Heck, you might not even get a single proc from it off onto an enemy champion. Or they might go to the two tanky dudes, who just don't mind. Or, WORST case scenario, your shot hits the tank holding the Randuin's Omen, lowering your AS, instead of killing the enemy carry.

I don't know about you, but I want to have as many factors as I can under my control. If I'm banking on how my item randomly reacts, then I better be prepared to be wrong, or else I could easily lose.

[frostshotgg]

I could write essays like webadict is, but I will instead put it into to plain words.

RUAANS IS USELESS. IT GIVES LESS DPS THAN OTHER ITEMS, EVEN ASSUMING ALL ENEMIES ARE WITHIN 300 RANGE OF EACHOTHER.

[Sharp]

As a late game AD carry you need to be taking people down quickly, not duelling people but doing damage in teamfights. I love graves as my example because he has a pretty short range, so many times in teamfights the ad carry doesn't get protected, and vs some champs like akali it's impossible to defend the ad carry so if your Graves it's hard to get into range of the enemies ad or ap carry, however with Runaan's and BotRK you increase your survivability by loads because if 2 or more champs jump on you then you not only survive longer with the additional lifesteal but you also do more damage to them softening up lots of the enemy team, plus I can spam E every 4 autoattacks to keep juking. One hilarious time I got dived on during a teamfight and I managed to juke them through tree's and then back again.

It is also situational (which I state many times ), if you have a Darius, Yi, Kata, Khazix or Akali on your team then doing lots of damage to the whole enemy team is more important then just doing single target damage.

I could write essays like webadict is, but I will instead put it into to plain words.

RUAANS IS USELESS. IT GIVES LESS DPS THAN OTHER ITEMS, EVEN ASSUMING ALL ENEMIES ARE WITHIN 300 RANGE OF EACHOTHER.

Single Target difference: 23% increased.
AoE difference? You've got me there. You technically do about 80% more damage.

[tompliss]

By the way, WebAddict, please don't quote a whole post that is  1 or 2 posts before yours, that's just poluting the thread ...

And yeah, runnananan's is bad.
You don't play at professional level, so it wouldn't hurt that much, but if you loose, you'll get blamed by everyone, and let alone if they don't love you before ... so yay !

[Jack_Bread]

I could write essays like webadict is, but I will instead put it into to plain words.

RUAANS IS USELESS. IT GIVES LESS DPS THAN OTHER ITEMS, EVEN ASSUMING ALL ENEMIES ARE WITHIN 300 RANGE OF EACHOTHER.

I like it on Twitch because in teamfights, that's more poison stacks on more people for more expunge. But that's just me.
I usually build it second, but I rarely play ADC. I main support.

[eerr]

playing ranged AD isn't always about building raw AD- Sometimes you want to hide your power so you get targeted less in soloque.

[Chaoswizkid]

Meanwhile,LeBlanc falls off like a lead balloon. That was me, spent most of my time derping around.

She shouldn't be that bad anymore. I've actually had a couple late-game LeBlanc matches where she was still useful late. That's a far cry from my 20-kill-at-mid-game-and-still-end-at-20-kills LeBlanc matches. I was actually a strong supporter of LeBlanc's previous power scaling: she allowed you to try and gain a massive early advantage for your team and your team just had to not lose that advantage (and you also had to play her correctly in that regard). Now, though, she's been more appropriately scaled in my experience, and she's my main. My mains are LeBlanc, Sona and Kog'Maw, in that order, if anyone cares.

[webadict]

By the way, WebAddict, please don't quote a whole post that is  1 or 2 posts before yours, that's just poluting the thread ...

And yeah, runnananan's is bad.
You don't play at professional level, so it wouldn't hurt that much, but if you loose, you'll get blamed by everyone, and let alone if they don't love you before ... so yay !

I quote things to show who I am talking to, and as a reminder to myself and others who read it. I don't believe that is polluting anything, and, in fact, I was lessening the amount of post I was quoting. Also, my name has one D. This is purposeful, and not merely a typo. But, if you feel my post is not contributing to the thread, you are free to tell me so that I may rectify the situation.

As a late game AD carry you need to be taking people down quickly, not duelling people but doing damage in teamfights. I love graves as my example because he has a pretty short range, so many times in teamfights the ad carry doesn't get protected, and vs some champs like akali it's impossible to defend the ad carry so if your Graves it's hard to get into range of the enemies ad or ap carry, however with Runaan's and BotRK you increase your survivability by loads because if 2 or more champs jump on you then you not only survive longer with the additional lifesteal but you also do more damage to them softening up lots of the enemy team, plus I can spam E every 4 autoattacks to keep juking. One hilarious time I got dived on during a teamfight and I managed to juke them through tree's and then back again.

It is also situational (which I state many times ), if you have a Darius, Yi, Kata, Khazix or Akali on your team then doing lots of damage to the whole enemy team is more important then just doing single target damage.

I could write essays like webadict is, but I will instead put it into to plain words.

RUAANS IS USELESS. IT GIVES LESS DPS THAN OTHER ITEMS, EVEN ASSUMING ALL ENEMIES ARE WITHIN 300 RANGE OF EACHOTHER.

Single Target difference: 23% increased.
AoE difference? You've got me there. You technically do about 80% more damage.

Most teamfights are NOT teams running straight at each other. I can assure you with 99.9% conviction that Runaan's is not the item you want.

If you don't want to accept this, then fine. But, anyone that knows the game can assure you the same thing. I've given good arguments AGAINST the Runaan's, and you're focused on the best case scenario for Runaan's. That best case scenario is bad to rely on.

Also, it's like 45% increased AoE damage. I did the math wrong because I got lazy at the end. Overall, please please please please please never tell anyone to buy Runaan's. Especially a newbie. I'm not sure where anyone got the idea it was good, but I can only assume it's a misunderstanding about the power of the item. Because no pro player was like, "Hey guys... Runaan's is a great item." And until the item gains other stats that can be used or a more controllable form of the passive (Tiamat works wonders because you can hit everything, and not two random things), then Runaan's will remain bad. I wish it were more complicated, but it's not, so there's no need to bother with the item.

playing ranged AD isn't always about building raw AD- Sometimes you want to hide your power so you get targeted less in soloque.

Kind of. It's nice not getting targeted because the enemy team doesn't believe you're a threat, but it's also nice being a threat. I only say to build damage if they have no idea what to do, since it's really the better of the two choices.