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Author Topic: League of Legends - Patch 7.22 - Runes Reforged  (Read 1285166 times)

IronyOwl

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10080 on: October 02, 2012, 01:41:18 am »

Veigar's one of my favorites. Seldom get to play him, though, since mid is a pretty popular spot. Properly Q-fed, he can burst down just about anything that isn't a tank from slightly damaged to dead in one volley. Never underestimate his ult against non-casters, either; it's the only ability I'm aware of that gets more than 1:1 scaling.

I thought he doesn't get a Q farm... because it only counts for hero kills.

Because if the whole time I could Q Farm minions... it would have probably have helped.

Anyhow from what I remember they changed his Q game from what you said anyhow.
The fact that it's divided into two lines and mentions AP gain in both of them really should have been a clue to read it more carefully. To be blunt I think you're making the third thing up to save face.
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Neonivek

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10081 on: October 02, 2012, 01:44:18 am »

Quote
To be blunt I think you're making the third thing up to save face

No the third is just that they changed it a bit so he no longer gets the 5, it is based on his Q skill. The more you got the more you get for hero kills.

That is all I was talking about.
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IronyOwl

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10082 on: October 02, 2012, 01:52:45 am »

Quote
To be blunt I think you're making the third thing up to save face

No the third is just that they changed it a bit so he no longer gets the 5, it is based on his Q skill. The more you got the more you get for hero kills.

That is all I was talking about.
Oh. Yeah, that part's been like that for a long time.
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Sonlirain

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10083 on: October 02, 2012, 05:49:14 am »

Quote
To be blunt I think you're making the third thing up to save face

No the third is just that they changed it a bit so he no longer gets the 5, it is based on his Q skill. The more you got the more you get for hero kills.

That is all I was talking about.
Oh. Yeah, that part's been like that for a long time.
Well not everyone follows changes of every single champion in the game and Veigar had quite a bit of subtle changes since he first appeared (and he was among the basic 40 champs to boot).
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webadict

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10084 on: October 02, 2012, 08:35:50 am »

All Veigar has gotten in the past few months would be a few QoL changes on mana costs, his passive got toned down a smidge, and his ultimate was changed from 1:1(enemy AP) to 1.2:.8(enemy AP), which was done back when Ryze wasn't a gatling mana caster.

He's been the same for a pretty long time now, and he's immensely useful on a team- most people just don't know it yet, play him well, or synergize well. Did you know Veig is a superb ganker?

I could do a quick how-to-play as I see him if anyone's interested. He's probably my favorite caster if you don't count Cho as one.
Veigar's a fine champ. I find the only problems I have with him are the players who use him. They will always cast their stun WITHOUT casting anything else. The whole point is to stun, smash your other spells, and THEN run. You can always cast your stun and aoe and run. But, they'll pull one of the stun, turn to run, turn back, and then aoe. At which point, the enemies are no longer stunned.
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frostshotgg

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10085 on: October 02, 2012, 11:54:39 am »

Veigar... He's fun. Very fun. He also hurts. He has the only skill with a base scaling of more than 1 ap that can be cast instantly and is guranteed to hit. That sounds oddly exact, but it is insanely good. Other skills with more than 1.0 ratios are dependent on other conditions, like multiple hits (Fiddlesticks E) charging up (Nunu R), or weird stuff like distance (Nidalee Q).
And then it scales decently off enemy AP, which kicks ads.
Ninja edit: I'm going to disagree with Naxza here. You don't need mp5 at all. The most I'd go is a set of flat mana regen yellows or philo if you rush it. Start Boots + 3 red pots, Regrowth + HP pot, or my personal favorite, faery charm, a ap potion (I mean the blue 250 pot.), and a hp pot.
My suggested endgame build is DFG, Rabadons (Both are core.), Void Staff (Mpen, natch), Rylais AND Warmogs/GA (Survivability. Really important that you get 2 survivability items.) and finally, the kicker, Ionian boots. The moment you have DFG and Ionians, ap potion 24/7. That means 40% CDR. This is good. I don't really have the time to write an essay like Nax, but give it a shot.
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IronyOwl

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10086 on: October 02, 2012, 06:22:30 pm »

Once you get your ultimate and Q to level four or five, it's time to start wrecking people. Drop a Q on your foe once or twice as opposed to last-hitting and watch it take out a fourth of their health. Whittle 'em down to a 2/3 or half health, then catch 'em by surprise and nuke the crap out of them. Drop everything- ignite included. You want your first kill to be violent and surprising. If your lane foe is dim, they won't pick up any magic resist, but will wander back into the lane thinking it won't happen again.

It will.
This is really one of the most beautiful things about Veigar. Some people just don't realize that half health is not safe for them, and then it's too late.

DFG costs more, but it doesn't have the regen, and frankly my fingers get all tied up when I try using its active ability.
Oh good, this isn't just me. Well, that and forgetting I have it completely. Erm, oops?


Ninja edit: I'm going to disagree with Naxza here. You don't need mp5 at all. The most I'd go is a set of flat mana regen yellows or philo if you rush it. Start Boots + 3 red pots, Regrowth + HP pot, or my personal favorite, faery charm, a ap potion (I mean the blue 250 pot.), and a hp pot.
I dunno man. I always manage to OOM myself at all times using nothing but Q, nevermind all the crapshoot meteor spam I'd like to be harassing with.

My suggested endgame build is DFG, Rabadons (Both are core.), Void Staff (Mpen, natch), Rylais AND Warmogs/GA (Survivability. Really important that you get 2 survivability items.) and finally, the kicker, Ionian boots. The moment you have DFG and Ionians, ap potion 24/7. That means 40% CDR. This is good. I don't really have the time to write an essay like Nax, but give it a shot.
This is an interesting idea, though. I tried building him CDR when I was very first trying him, but it didn't particularly seem to work out; then again, I probably had no idea what I was doing.

Also, never tried getting any survivability items other than RoA. Given that dying instantly is one of his weak spots, perhaps I should give that a shot.
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The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Frumple

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10087 on: October 02, 2012, 07:43:59 pm »

8:39 dominion game, yikes. Just against bots, but still... I knew dom games could get short, but I figured the lower limit was a bit, well... higher than that.

Also Xin is kinda' fun. Gonna' have to try that guy again.

And, hum. Hextech sweeper on teemo in dom? Seems like it might be a good idea, but I'unno.
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frostshotgg

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10088 on: October 02, 2012, 07:59:23 pm »

 Now that I'm no longer typing on a phone, I can give my full rundown on Veigar.

First things first, let me just get the Runes and Masteries out of the way first.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In text form, MPen Reds, Flat AP Quints, Scaling AP Blues, and either MP5, armor, or HP/lvl yellows. 21/0/9 masteries, taking AP options in offensive, and MS in utility. Havoc and Good Hands are purely preference, you can put the points into 4 Mental Force and 2 Butcher, and 3 in Expanded Mind if you wish.

Next easiest to go into detail on is itemization. I'm going to say right off the bat, Rabadon's and Void Staff are non-optional. Rabadon's gives +30% AP, which is insanely amazing and I shouldn't have to explain why. Void Staff, on the other hand, is the unsung hero of APs everywhere. It means that at least half of your damage is completely unmitigated. MR is no longer a hard counter. Mkay? Mkay. So, 2 items down.

Next up, some form of upgraded boots are required. There aren't any options in the entire game that let you keep that same mobility except for 3 PDs, which is absolute shit. Of the upgrades, the ones that Veigar can make use of are Swift, Mobi, Tabi, Mercs, Sorcs, and CDR. The first two are useful for the mobility they provide, second two are for defense, and the last two are damage. Right off the top, I'm going to say Swift is terrible on Veigar. He just isn't one of the (Very few) champs that can make use of the perma +20 ms. Veigar will be getting in, bursting someone, then getting out. The only time Swiftness could have any advantage over Mobi is when you need to run, and I can guarantee that 20 MS won't save you. Skipping over Mobi for now, Tabi vs. Mercs. Tabi will never, ever save you. 20 armor and 10% less damage or whatever it is will never save you, they are useless to Veigar. Mercs, on the other hand, might let you escape from a nasty piece of cc that would kill you. However, if someone's in range to cc you, you're probably dead anyways. If you're going to get Mercs, get them during laning when the little MR they give is relevant. So your real choices are down to Mobi, Sorc, and CDR. Mobi are good if you're running everywhere and scoring kills up in top or bot. Otherwise, it's better to sit in mid and farm. Sorc vs. CDR is one of the biggest debates. The tipping factor in this mess is Void Staff. As we said above, it's pretty much core. Because of the way Magic Resist reductions are calculated (Flat Reduction > % Reduction > Flat Pen > % Pen) Sorc Shoes and Void Staff conflict, reducing each others effectiveness. CDR, on the other hand, is only ever reduced in strength by having 40% CDR already. So, we have resolved the conflict of CDR boots vs. MPen boots, and CDR wins. That's 3 items, half our inventory.

Next up, DFG. I really shouldn't have to justify this. 50% of their hp with the press of a button (I put it in slot 2 or 3, and then set it to smartcast. Smartcasting items is really handy.) is crazy good. Veigar gets free AP. DFG scales with AP. DFG is also what makes half a dozen "AP" champs work. Etc, etc, I've already had my rant on it. Basically, DFG is a good buy. 4 items.

And... We don't really have any other pressing needs. Most champs would just get more AP for damage, but Veigar doesn't need that. Instead, he likes to not die, so let's build for that. Let's look at the survival options APs have. Zhonya's (AP, Armor), Abyssal (AP, MR), Rylais (AP, HP, CC), RoA (AP, HP, Mana), and then other tank items, such as FoN, Warmogs, GA, Aegis, etc. Let's look at the AP options first. Zhonya's has a really sweet active, but it isn't going to save you from an angry 4 man mob. The AP and Armor, are nice, but not amazing. Abyssal, on the other hand, would be a good match, but it has the same issue as Sorc Shoes if you were to get into melee range somehow, and the MR isn't great, nor is the AP. Rylais and RoA, both give 80 AP, 500 or so HP, and a nice slow or large amount of mana respectively. The issue with RoA, is that now that a jungler is all but guaranteed, so is blue buff. Between bluebuff and your passive, you shouldn't have a need for more mana, and if you did, mana regen rather than full mana would suit Veigar better. So it's a slow versus mana that you don't have a use for. So, Rylai's is the clear winner of AP tank items. However, there are some *great* defensive options that don't offer any useful offensive stats for Veigar. Namely, GA and Warmogs. Warmogs, that godlike hp buff that it is, brings the stat that Veig needs most of all. 9000 armor and MR couldn't save him when he still only has 1500 HP or whatever it is. Warmogs can nearly double that. GA, on the other hand, gives a massive boost of defensive stats AND has that op as hell unique. So, which defensive items should you get? My personal preference is Rylais/Warmogs. Rylai's because it gives a nice amount of AP with 500 HP, and I chose Warmogs over GA because in unorganized games, you're not likely to see teams of 5 GAs, and as anybody who has played against bots can attest, 1 GA isn't a problem, just an extra 750 hp to melt. 5 GAs is a nightmare, though, because nobody stays dead ever.

For build order, take starting items > philo (If you started with one of the components, otherwise, skip it.) > Kages > Boots 1 (If you didn't start them) > Giant's Belt (Only If you're having trouble with dying in lane. Don't bother upgrading it just yet, you only get 70 HP and 80 AP) > Ionian Boots > Rabadon's > Void Staff > DFG > Rylai's > Sell Philo > Warmog's. At any point past completing Rabadon's, you should always have a blue potion running.

*Pauses for breath*

Oh god this is getting long so I'll take the cheaty way out and say Nax has it mostly right as far as playstyle goes.
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Cthulhu

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10089 on: October 02, 2012, 09:26:48 pm »

I miss playing Veigar back when I was low level.  Went up against a Brand once, slowly whittled him down to low health, he went b.  As soon as he comes back I burst him back down to 10% hp.  He goes b again.

I didn't like Dark Matter though, because the other guy was always dead before it hit.
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Neonivek

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10090 on: October 02, 2012, 09:46:30 pm »

My favorite of the mages as of right now is Malef... but I cannot afford him right now.

My favorite Melee character is also too expencive.

I have VERY expencive tastes...
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Frumple

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10091 on: October 02, 2012, 11:10:57 pm »

Tried Xin again. I... kinda' like this guy. Gonna' have to do it some more, yeah. How do folks prefer to build th'fellow? Skill wise, the idea seems to go e->w->q and then mix it a bit between e and w, with preference toward e. Q seems "enough" just being there, whereas E is pretty painful and a gap closer, and w is both a sustain boost and enables the q knockup to land pretty easily, so that point spread seems fairly natural. Suggestions welcome, though :P

Last one I got saddled with the equivalent of a lane swap (went bot because other folks, the guy I was duoing with was d/c'd 90% of the game, so I was solo vs standard bottom), went boots 3pot -> Dorian shield and sword* -> Phage -> Sheen -> Triforce... and then things got a little silly because I was up fifteen or so kills (Bot game, ha. Vs MF and Lux) so I grabbed a tiamat and was starting to work toward a PD. Zerk boots somewhere in there. Was a little thrown together, to say least.

Looking at the guy, AP benefits 'is sustain a bit, and that delicious E. Then the rest of 'is non-ult stuff is basically AD steroids. So... not really sure where I was going. Like a little AP, not much, but some. Then AD stuff.

Guess I'm wondering if any defense items synergize particularly well with the guy?

*Speaking of this, is mixing dorians ever a good idea? It seemed like one in this case, but generally when folks go double dorian they seem to go double sword or double ring, not shield and something else.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 11:13:09 pm by Frumple »
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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10092 on: October 03, 2012, 03:31:49 am »

What I want to see is a game of Nasus, Sion and Veigar losing early but snowballing to win late. I don't think there are any other champs that can snowball w/o items.

Also Nasus and Sion are underplayed, they are so OP, they have great CC, nice AoE ability, lifesteal and deadly autoattacks as well as troll ulti's. I played a horrible game of Nasus where Irelia pretty much dominated me early game but once I got that troll ulti and farmed up that Q I was scoring triple kills all over the place, in teamfights I didn't even focus champs I was just move-attack and press Q and things just die. Half tempted to get Tiamats because the splash damage is true damage so critical fed Q on a minion can deal a ton of damage on tanky top lane champ.
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IronyOwl

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10093 on: October 03, 2012, 04:33:30 am »

I didn't like Dark Matter though, because the other guy was always dead before it hit.
Ah yes, Veigar at his finest. :P


Tried Xin again. I... kinda' like this guy.
Yeah, been meaning to try him. Always seemed fun (and rather strong), and it's generally wise to play anyone you see with any frequency, helps understand them better.

Technically I did try him once, but it was against beginner bots and I was mid. Uh... yeah.
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Cthulhu

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Kha'zix, the Voidreaver - 1.0.0.148
« Reply #10094 on: October 03, 2012, 05:28:07 am »

Is anyone else wonderring who the hell Malef is?
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