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[penguinofhonor]

I was playing Diana when I realized I'm not very good at assassins.

Gotta remember that I'm not meant to initiate.

[Bordellimies]

Yeah, there's a dota champ (Blood something or other, iirc) that has an ability that deals damage based on how much you move while under its effect. As I vaguely remember HoN mostly just ripping everything straight for DotA (has that got any better over time?), I imagine it's in there, too.

LoL does have a couple abilities based on stuff like that... Vayne's passive, Tryn's shout-thingy, maybe more. Dashes/MS buffs are less powerful than pulls, though, so it's kinda' understandable why pulls aren't used quite as much. Harder to balance around. Not an argument against their use, per se, but a fair reason they're not as common.

Bloodseeker is the guy, and his kit is another definition of anti-fun. He basically heals for a big % when he kills something, he has an ability which silences for about 6 seconds but buffs attack damage by 80%, he has Warwick's Blood Scent and his ult is plain ridiculous. If you move, you die in mere seconds (especially if you move fast) and if you stay still the Bloodseeker guy just comes in with his 180% damage and proceeds to rape you. Some Bloodseekers even buy a Force Staff item, which can be used to move any hero 600 units away (so he ults you and then forces you to move forward, dealing about 360 damage)

I don't generally dislike gapclosers, some of them are needed, but more often than not Riot's bruisers have both a skill to speed themselves up (MS buff or blink or dash) AND a way to slow the enemy (stun, pull). Olaf has only his slow which makes him weaker against mobile champions, but he is still really strong. A bruiser with no gapclosers at all could be interesting as well, since you'd have to plan your entry instead of just rushing in.

[umiman]

Please don't slander if you have no idea what you're talking about. Dota 2 is a completely different game, and just listing what Bloodseeker is capable of without talking about why he is allowed to exist like that in a completely different game is not exactly fair. It's equivalent to me saying TF2 is antifun because there's this hero called Sniper who can instakill me from 500m away just by pressing his mouse button.

Yes, he has all those skills. But Bloodseeker is in Dota 2, not LoL where the rules of the game are very different:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1. Teleport scrolls. Everyone gets them since they cost barely anything. In this case, if Bloodseeker ults you, all someone has to press the B button. He has no CC at all to interrupt you.

2. Blink dagger. Bloodseeker's ult doesn't work if you move a great distance in a short time. In LoL terms, all you need to do is flash away.

3. Bloodseeker never maxes his damage amplification first, since the whole point of it is to silence the enemy. When you apply it on the enemy, not only will they be silenced, but they'll get the 80% damage boost as well. Even a support that has 180% damage will still kill Bloodseeker, so you will never see this happen until the very late game.

4. Bloodseeker's lifesteal only works when he kills things, not while autoattacking. This makes it extremely unreliable against enemy heroes unless you're completely roflstomping anyway. And by then any other hero would have kicked your ass. In LoL terms, imagine if Warwick's passive didn't work until something died.

5. He is incredibly squishy. And a melee hero. With no escape.

6. Lastly, Bloodseeker is not a carry. He has no autoattack damage potential and he doesn't kill things by autoattacking them. He is 100% reliant on his ult. In LoL terms, imagine if Cho Gath only had his R. And it only worked once a minute and used all his mana to cast. You have Bloodseeker's Rupture.

All of the points combined makes him so rarely seen that he can be classified as an endangered species. He's too easy to counter and is 100% acknowledged as a pubstomp hero to use against people who don't understand him. It's also slightly ironic that the same Force Staff he mentioned is also Bloodseeker's counter. In that you just have to Force Staff HIM away once he gets near you.

It's true that there's a burden of knowledge on the player to know what Bloodseeker does, and if that makes things antifun, then so be it. But you can't complain that Riot keeps producing carbon copy heroes while simultaneously complaining that it's too difficult to know how to fight more interesting skillsets. After all, if Bloodseeker is antifun... what about Nature's Prophet, who can teleport around the entire map at level 1. Or Doombringer, who can silence you for 13 seconds (!!!) and deal 80% of your hp in damage in one ultimate. Or Tidehunter, who can literally stun the entire screen for 3.5 seconds!

Tl;Dr: The games are different. If you're going to compare, explain why it's different.

[Bordellimies]

I know the games are different, and I didn't try to slander neither one of them, nor to compare them. I have no idea why I listed stuff of Bloodseeker since none of it was relevant.

But back to LoL: I think Riot is generally making too many Bruisers and assassins which have so similar kits that while they're all different, they all have  a crapload of similar strengths and only a few weaknesses.



Diana is an assassin with a blink with only 12 second cooldown, which can potentially be used twice in a row. Her Q which makes the blink have no cooldown, and this ability has 6 second cooldown. She also has an AoE pull ability to prevent escaping. Being an assassin, her main weakness is the durability. But she has a shield which can potentially have double health. Her overall mobility also adds greatly to her survivability, making her weakness null.


Jayce is a bruiser who has too many abilities. He has a leap + slow, he can deal damage based on % health, his base damage from all of his abilities is quite high, his passive grants him movement speed as well as his wall, he has ranged harass and he is hard to kill. Being a bruiser his main weakness is.. Well, bruisers are supposed to get close in order to do their stuff, which isn't all that hard for Jayce, considering he can also become ranged if the need arises.


Darius' passive grants him movement speed as he hits enemy champions. Even in 1 vs 1 this allows for easy chasing, and in a teamfight if he hits at least 3 guys you can't outrun him. He has an ability which pulls you towards him which makes escaping even harder. His damage output without items is enormous.


Since bruisers need to get close to their target, Hecarim is on a stable base. His mobility is glorious, his sustain is fantastic and crowd control is beautiful. Although I like this champ quite much, how is he different from other brusiers? More mobility, but the build is basically the same. Build health, armor & MR, and still deal loads of damage. Especially since bruisers have such good items.


Ahri has charm, and 3 fucking dashes. She has long range and high damage as well. Assassins are meant to be squishy, and even though Ahri is very soft, she can escape  all situations with no problems. Oh, and she also has loads of spellvamp combined with true damage.


Volibear is extremely durable with his passive, so he can just build like any other bruiser. He has an ability which increases his movement speed and he also has Fling. He has an ability which deals daamge based on his max hp, meaning he can build the basic Fratmogs and do tons of damage. He also has an AoE slow and high damage on his ult.


Fizz... Another assassin who can chase and get away with ease. I wouldn't have a big problem with this champ, if he couldn't pop projectiles with his trollvault. it is only on a 8 sec cooldown too. And his ult which slows and then knocks you up. And his dash which can potentially be used to escape with the help of creepwaves/jungle creeps. No biggie to get away. Build him relatively durable and not only does he refuse to die, but he also makes you die.


Shyvana has ridiculous damage and speed, and especially in her ult form she is also impossible to kill once she has a couple of items. She basically plays like a tank, as if you focus her she doesn't die and her team rapes you, but despite building like one, her damage isn't tank-like. It is bruiser damage, AKA too high when compared to durability.


Riven is another one. Just like Shyvana, she is really hard to kill and her damage overpowers you. She has mobility and CC as well.


Talon is another one, but he is a mixture of both. An assassin that can get away with ease, but he is also an incredibly good bruiser.



If you look at the list further, you notice many of the bruisers and assassins are similar. All bruisers deal huge damage and refuse to die, and all the new assassins deal immense damage and still survive super easily. If an assassin has stealth or blinks or whatever, it is okay, thats in their nature. But if the assassin doesn't have to build damage items in order to deal high damage, something is broken. Same with bruisers. It is an extremely dumb concept to make so many bruiserswhich can buy Wit's End, Maw of Malmortius, Frozen Mallet, Atma's Impaler, Warmog's Armor, Trinity Force and so on, and assassins get Abyssal Scepter, Rylai's Scepter, Zhonya's Hourglass and Will of the Ancients, items which give both durability and damage. Why would you ever want to buy something other than these, when buying these items you basically get all of the needed stats to survive, and all of the stats to kill?



TL;DR:  I don't like the game since Riot keeps spewing out champions which all last an eternity and kill you in seconds. The items aren't balanced for the game since playing a non-tanky champion and buying non-tanky items will only end up getting you dead.

[Sharp]

Don't forget Akali

Dash attack ulti with 2 or 1 second cd, can be used 3 times without a kill/assist and after kill or assist can use ulti again with no cost (except the massive 2 or 1 sec CD) and then troll shroud W to become invisible anywhere, gets her resistance and slows enemies so easy to escape or use it for a gank. Oh and no mana, only energy and her passive gives her spellvamp so she only needs to go back to base to buy more items to do more damage to get more sustain.

I don't think Diana is more op then Akali, people just need to get used to her shield which protects her, does damage and then protects her again.

[frostshotgg]

I hope you didn't just say Fizz was a bruiser and mean it. Bruiser Fizz is terrible and really doesn't do much at all. Just because he's survivable doesn't make him in any way tanky. The most you're going to see from Fizz is Rylais, and (On bad Fizzes, at least), RoA.

[Frumple]

Fizz... Another assassin[...]

Pretty sure assassin and bruiser are two different words

[RedKing]

TL;DR:  I don't like the game since Riot keeps spewing out champions which all last an eternity and kill you in seconds. The items aren't balanced for the game since playing a non-tanky champion and buying non-tanky items will only end up getting you dead.

Can't agree. I play mostly support and ranged. While my overall stats may be not be the best in a given match, I think I hold my own pretty well. It's just a matter of learning to play as defensively as the champ warrants. Being squishy means keeping your distance, withdrawing sooner, building tenacity items (and/or picking Cleanse as a summoner spell), etc.

LeBlanc isn't tanky but she still facerapes entire teams if played properly.

[Bordellimies]

I never said Fizz is a bruiser. I said if you build him relatively tanky and he can't die. This means RoA, Rylai, Lichbane and usually also I see Zhonya's on him.

[Exerosp]

Honestly, there's only a few builds I know of that are successful. Stacking high AP items for Mages, Shred build (AKA Flat AP reductions like Maladys *Actually, rush a Malady and have surge on kayle, you'll rape*), IE + Damage items, Kog and then the last, those HP Walls.

[Jelle]

I do say there haven't been many interesting mages lately. All of the ones they are adding are borderline assassins mostly.
Zyra could have been more like heimer but she ended up more generic nuker/cc.
Xerath could have been interesting but riot really dropped the ball there. Ended up as a nuker, riot decided to tweak him into sustained magic siege caster as was intended but now he's not much at all.

Can't complain about AD carry. Draven is a whole lot of fun to play and is pretty original if you ask me. And depending on who you ask he's perfectly viable.

[Exerosp]

Gameplay wise, yeah, but his build is the same. I find that too many champs use the same kinda items. They should either cap BTs or possibly make some changes with IE.

[frostshotgg]

I never said Fizz is a bruiser. I said if you build him relatively tanky and he can't die. This means RoA, Rylai, Lichbane and usually also I see Zhonya's on him.

Except the only item there Fizz should get is LB, and maybe Zhonyas or Rylais in very certain circumstances. He has to much to gain from building pure damage and he has enough survival already that he doesn't need HP or Ar/MR.

[RedKing]

Gameplay wise, yeah, but his build is the same. I find that too many champs use the same kinda items. They should either cap BTs or possibly make some changes with IE.

I blame that on peer pressure and the slavish devotion to meta.
"OMG y u no build deathcap on veigar?? go kill urself nub"

Sorry, what was that? I was too busy winning to hear you. 

[Exerosp]

Gameplay wise, yeah, but his build is the same. I find that too many champs use the same kinda items. They should either cap BTs or possibly make some changes with IE.

I blame that on peer pressure and the slavish devotion to meta.
"OMG y u no build deathcap on veigar?? go kill urself nub"

Sorry, what was that? I was too busy winning to hear you. 

Honestly though, to win, you need as much burst/damage output as possible, that is Deathcap and IE. They're the dominant items, which kinda bugs me :/

Though Veigar has his ult, just Like NuNu, so they're K...