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[Exerosp]

I dare to claim that any champ that can only deliver his main damage at melee range has a outragously hard time in high ranked / elo play.

Lee sin, Akali, warwick.

[Sharp]

This isn't usually the problem, though.  As has been mentioned before.  You don't use your ultimate until you're already low on life.  At that moment, you're most likely depending on that healing to sustain you through the fight.  You can heal faster than most people can damage you.  If you've built all defense items, you can even survive a full team focus for a few seconds.  Until you're ignited.  Then all of a sudden you go squish.

Which is the whole point of getting a QSS. You seem to have some weird dislike for the item, yes it doesn't have the highest mag resistance in the game but it's debuff removal makes it incredibly powerful, honestly if your facing a team which has 3+ ignites which they focus on mundo sequentially during a teamfight and seeing when you use QSS then you have a bit more of a problem then deciding whether to get QSS or FoN.

And anyway why make a tough decision when you can put those hands together and get both? Depending on how the game is going I like to go Sorc Boots+Warmogs+QSS+Leviathan+FoN+Warmogs, an anti mage build which focuses on out-healing damage from AD carries then armour, which I like especially as most AD carries get Last Whisper so armour is less useful.

[RedKing]

I leave you people for 3 days and you go crazy. Mundo is not shut down by ignite. It takes 4 ignites to completely stop his ultimate, and then you've still got about 10k effective up to burn through.
The easiest mages to pick up are Annie and Ryze. (Hard to hit) skillshots and the hardest part of mages to learn.

Ignites do not stack, and if his healing is reduced, how does he have so much effective HP? Especially considering he should only be using his ultimate when he has taken heavy damage in the first place.

He meant that the duration of Mundos ulti would need 4 ignites to completely negate that duration.

This isn't usually the problem, though.  As has been mentioned before.  You don't use your ultimate until you're already low on life.  At that moment, you're most likely depending on that healing to sustain you through the fight.  You can heal faster than most people can damage you.  If you've built all defense items, you can even survive a full team focus for a few seconds.  Until you're ignited.  Then all of a sudden you go squish.

Actually, as Mundo I pop my ult just before initiating if I'm expecting a full teamfight. Partially for the reason cited, partially so that I don't get hard CC'd and be unable to trigger it when I need it, and partially because I'm old, there are wolves after me, and I have terribad reaction times.

Plus, the psychological impact of someone(s) triggering their ult and barely seeing my health bar move is priceless. 

Mundo is one of my go-to guys when I've been on a losing streak and just need a champ that I can play and build without too much thinking about it and still have a good shot to win with even when the rest of my team is derpy.

Amumu is another, but he's a bit trickier because he lacks the inherent survivability of dat health regen. He makes up for it with some nice base resistances and item synergies that boost his armor and MR even as they jack up his AP and magic pen. It's hella fun to have a late game amumu with 300+ armor, 200+ MR, and enough AP and magic pen that I melt people just by walking nearby.

[Wiles]

I dare to claim that any champ that can only deliver his main damage at melee range has a outragously hard time in high ranked / elo play.

Lee sin, Akali, warwick.

Lee Sin and Akali are incredibly mobile champions. Also, in my experience Warwick can outrun just about anyone ( with few exceptions) if they are hurt.  Plus most of his damage comes from his R and Q, which have a decent range on them.

It is more the champions that aren't very mobile and rely on being in melee range that are falling behind due to the mobility creep (AD Sion, for example).

[Exerosp]

I dare to claim that any champ that can only deliver his main damage at melee range has a outragously hard time in high ranked / elo play.

Lee sin, Akali, warwick.

Lee Sin and Akali are incredibly mobile champions. Also, in my experience Warwick can outrun just about anyone ( with few exceptions) if they are hurt.  Plus most of his damage comes from his R and Q, which have a decent range on them.

It is more the champions that aren't very mobile and rely on being in melee range that are falling behind due to the mobility creep (AD Sion, for example).

What my point was that they're all melee ranged champs (atleast their major samage output) that has decent dashes.

[Knirisk]

I dare to claim that any champ that can only deliver his main damage at melee range has a outragously hard time in high ranked / elo play.

Lee sin, Akali, warwick.

Lee Sin and Akali are incredibly mobile champions. Also, in my experience Warwick can outrun just about anyone ( with few exceptions) if they are hurt.  Plus most of his damage comes from his R and Q, which have a decent range on them.

It is more the champions that aren't very mobile and rely on being in melee range that are falling behind due to the mobility creep (AD Sion, for example).

What my point was that they're all melee ranged champs (atleast their major samage output) that has decent dashes.

Anyway, most melee champs are very mobile anyway. The ones that aren't, (Darius), usually make up for it in some other way. AD Sion is weird because he only has two skills that are directly beneficial to his playstyle anyway.

[frostshotgg]

I really don'nt get why you won't give up, Salmon. People like you are the same people who make Mundo effective in the first place. Your insistence that him only getting half of his ult if the player is stupid and the enemy is somehow super coordinated suddenly makes him useless, and he will therefore die super fast so go ahead and focus him is how Mundo works. Even with 12 seconds of 50% regen, he's still got 110% of his max up if he ults at full for some reason (about half is the sweet spot) and then you have at least 150 of a given resist to stop you from burning through 4k up.

Anyway, most melee champs are very mobile anyway. The ones that aren't, (Darius), usually make up for it in some other way. AD Sion is weird because he only has two skills that are directly beneficial to his playstyle anyway.

A short cd stun and more survivability+a decent base nuke aren't beneficial?

[Astral]

Xin Zhao seems to be more than a little bit overpowered as a top solo now. I mean, slowing someone, reducing their armor, and a multi hit attack buff that can easily deal over 300 damage at level one?

Ridiculous.

[SalmonGod]

I really don'nt get why you won't give up, Salmon. People like you are the same people who make Mundo effective in the first place.

I've said all there really is to say about it.  I just don't play Mundo anymore, because most teams I play against are that super-coordinated.  It might have something to do with my wife having almost 2000 wins.  She plays this game WAY too fucking much.  I rarely lose a game when I'm not playing with her.

I just keep getting hit with ignites and equivalent with such amazingly precise timing almost every time I play him, and consecutive applications of these things often enough.  At a certain level of play, consistency becomes incredibly important.  You have to make precise intuitive judgment calls on when to engage and disengage based on how much combined punishment your character can take and dish out compared to the other team.  If anything throws off your feel for exactly how much you can survive and what you can accomplish before you get killed or forced out, then things go to hell very quickly.  Being forced to drop a large chunk of movement speed and health regen for a quicksilver sash causes me to overestimate my ability to engage and disengage.  Healing debuffs throw a huge amount of variability into how much I am able to draw focus.

Yeah, it's still a ton of healing, even with the debuff, but imagine this kind of weakness on any other character.  Imagine you're an AP nuke and think "I can drop that guy instantly if I jump in right.... NOW", but the enemy drops a summoner's spell on you that drops your AP by half.  Now you don't explode that guy, and you're helpless in the aftermath of your miscalculation, as you're out of position with everything on cooldown.

And regardless of the numbers, everything I'm saying is based on hundreds of game's worth of experience.  Mundo is by far my favorite character to play, and I don't enjoy drifting away from him.  I just don't do as well with him anymore as I do with other characters, even though I know him better than any other character.  I think the sole reason is because they're just more consistent.  I'm not forced to doubt "Well, we could win this fight right now if I don't get an ignite dropped on me" and constantly gamble on how effective I will be.

[Realmfighter]

Yeah, it's still a ton of healing, even with the debuff, but imagine this kind of weakness on any other character.  Imagine you're an AP nuke and think "I can drop that guy instantly if I jump in right.... NOW", but the enemy drops a summoner's spell on you that drops your AP by half.  Now you don't explode that guy, and you're helpless in the aftermath of your miscalculation, as you're out of position with everything on cooldown.

To be fair though, Exhaust cuts ability damage by 35% which depending on the abilities base damage can be more then losing 50% of your AP.

[SalmonGod]

Yeah, it's still a ton of healing, even with the debuff, but imagine this kind of weakness on any other character.  Imagine you're an AP nuke and think "I can drop that guy instantly if I jump in right.... NOW", but the enemy drops a summoner's spell on you that drops your AP by half.  Now you don't explode that guy, and you're helpless in the aftermath of your miscalculation, as you're out of position with everything on cooldown.

To be fair though, Exhaust cuts ability damage by 35% which depending on the abilities base damage can be more then losing 50% of your AP.

I didn't even realize exhaust did that.  I've never had a problem with it, because people rarely seem use it for anything but the slow effect.

[Astral]

Great for anti carry duty, since it cuts 70% off of auto attacks as well. The slow is nice, but not its main strategic use, in my opinion.

[Sharp]

Yeah, it's still a ton of healing, even with the debuff, but imagine this kind of weakness on any other character.  Imagine you're an AP nuke and think "I can drop that guy instantly if I jump in right.... NOW", but the enemy drops a summoner's spell on you that drops your AP by half.  Now you don't explode that guy, and you're helpless in the aftermath of your miscalculation, as you're out of position with everything on cooldown.

And regardless of the numbers, everything I'm saying is based on hundreds of game's worth of experience.  Mundo is by far my favorite character to play, and I don't enjoy drifting away from him.  I just don't do as well with him anymore as I do with other characters, even though I know him better than any other character.  I think the sole reason is because they're just more consistent.  I'm not forced to doubt "Well, we could win this fight right now if I don't get an ignite dropped on me" and constantly gamble on how effective I will be.

Imagine if you had an item which meant that when an enemy tries to drop your AP by half you can just negate it completely, and now they are helpless in the aftermath of their miscalculation, of course I don't think QSS actually stops the AP/item power/AD debuff but it does stop the healing debuff from ignite, if your worried about exhaust then get a cleanse.

Your switching arguments without really answering the issue that QSS cancels out ignite completely which makes Mundo very powerful, get a QSS early i.e. before FoN or SV or 2nd Warmogs etc... and you won't have to worry about late game teamfights where you get ignited a dozen times because they will have surrendered by then.

I mean ffs your last phrase  'I'm not forced to doubt "Well, we could win this fight right now if I don't get an ignite dropped on me" and constantly gamble on how effective I will be.' is rendered invalid by QSS, maybe you should try it.

[Frumple]

I'll continue to love Mundo, but I definitely should try other stuff, it seems. Co-op as Poppy ended up doing about three/four times the raw damage Mundo did in a similar game, and still managed to tank about the same multiple of damage (Going 22/2 didn't hurt >_>). Gonna' be another "I need to run this through PvP six or seven times and get a few 'gone south' scenarios". Hybrid-ish poppy's q seems to hurt pretty badly. More importantly, it was pretty fun. I love the kind of semi-meta where you point your ult at whoever has the lowest damage/least likely to die, then jump right into the middle of their team to murder a squishy and run back out laughing. That is enjoyable.

[frostshotgg]

I give up. Salmon refuses to be convinced.

Frumple, you absolutely have to stop playing bots forever if you want to get a good idea of champions. That's like walking with a crutch when you're born turn never dropping it.