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Author Topic: League of Legends - Patch 7.22 - Runes Reforged  (Read 1270461 times)

RedKing

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Huh. Okay, Ryze might have been bad example (compounded by my not knowing the items for shit).
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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Bordellimies

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And because of Ryze's passive, you're hard-pressed to build armor and AD when mana and AP are so much more effective.
hard-pressed to build armor and AD[MR I think]
...

Please tell me you're joking. Every goddamn mana item in the game has some sort of tanky stat. You don't have to choose with Ryze, that's his gimick. Endgame Ryze build: Frozen Heart/Banshee's Veil/Rabadons/2 RoAs/Mercs or Sorc.
Get boots + 3 archangels + Rabadon + Lichbane
Best Ryze build, right dere
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frostshotgg

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Ok, I'll submit I forgot AA. I was only sorta thinking. But you don't have much of a reason to take multiple AAs, Ryze doesn't benefit from AP enough.
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penguinofhonor

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Well, but that's the age-old debate between min-maxing and complementary builds, isn't it? And it varies based on champ. Alistar is a tank you can build AD or even AP, but Dr. Mundo doesn't scale on either stat. For him, it's health, health and more health. Sure, you *could* add AD if you really want, but you're losing more than you gain. Boots + 5 Warmog's FTW.

I disagree. Alistar here is the perfect example of why high bases always result in the exact opposite of their intended use. He was supposed to be a tank originally, and his ult was 75% at all levels. This scaled pretty well with defenses, as intended.

Then people realized that huge innate defenses scale better with building damage. Thus AP Alistar was ridiculously OP for a while. If you've got ridiculous innate defenses, people are just going to build damage so they have a ton of offense and defense. Typical base stats aren't this extreme, but they still result in people realizing they just don't need as much of whatever stat you give them for free.

Also, Mundo scales well with all defensive stats, not just health.
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frostshotgg

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Have a look at Irelia for why you can't have nice things high bases. I'm too lazy to deconstruct it.
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webadict

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And because of Ryze's passive, you're hard-pressed to build armor and AD when mana and AP are so much more effective.
hard-pressed to build armor and AD[MR I think]
...

Please tell me you're joking. Every goddamn mana item in the game has some sort of tanky stat. You don't have to choose with Ryze, that's his gimick. Endgame Ryze build: Frozen Heart/Banshee's Veil/Rabadons/2 RoAs/Mercs or Sorc.
Get boots + 3 archangels + Rabadon + Lichbane
Best Ryze build, right dere
No. Bad.

If AA's mana passive stacked, then maybe. However, you're only gaining 6% of your mana + 90 in AP and 800 mana from those other 2 AAs. However, you're neglecting two very important things:

1. Cooldown Reduction.
2. Tanky Stats.

You lose out if your AP isn't enough to crush the team. You basically just end up getting killed fast. Tanky Ryze, on the other hand, survives hard and still dishes out burns with his basketballs. Use double WotA for more murdersprees, and insane sustain.

Also, CDR is very important on Ryze.
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Bordellimies

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Math time
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 02:59:15 am by Bordellimies »
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Techhead

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I just started playing this a month and a half ago, and I'm loving it. My favorite champs so far are: Tristana, Garen and Xerath. I like Leona too, but I'm still saving up for her, so she's free-week only for me.
I hate runepages, though. Expensive to buy, expensive to fill.
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Engineering Dwarves' unfortunate demises since '08
WHAT?  WE DEMAND OUR FREE THINGS NOW DESPITE THE HARDSHIPS IT MAY CAUSE IN YOUR LIFE
It's like you're all trying to outdo each other in sheer useless pedantry.

Bordellimies

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I hate runepages, though. Expensive to buy, expensive to fill.
But so helpful. 25 Armon penetration & 6.5 mana per 5 on one page - this means true damage as AD champs early on when people have less than 30 armor, and I won't run OOM. +38% attack speed on one page, extremely useful for guys like Teemo or Kog'Maw. Runes to make jungling so much faster, to give late game power, lane presence and so on...  Runes are really helpful, and once you've bought the few champs you like to play, invest in runes. Maybe get tier 1 runes since they're super cheap, and when lvl 30 get the tier 3 runes, ignore tier 2. I got 11 runepages, all of them full, and I still feel like I need more.


Also, this happened.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 03:55:34 am by Bordellimies »
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RedKing

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So...still derpy after latest patch/rollback? Tried again last night, and it was "trololo please wait 32 minutes, there are over 20000 people in front of you".
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

webadict

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Math time
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But you're not getting the most out of him if you're building that way.

At that point, you're effective health is about 3300. My effective health becomes about 7100. That's a noticeable difference. This matters because you are a short-ranged mage. You don't get the liberty of skillshots through things, so you will have to be up in someone's face. Your full burst? (Which, by the way, is WQERQ, so you count Q twice.) That has only done half of my health. My full burst does about 3/4 of yours. I heal faster, cast more often, and I also get a nifty spell shield to stop some of those pesky spells. And since I am tanky, I don't need to be behind everyone.

Not only that, but I end up with over 4500 mana. So, I still end with more. And since you're going AP, you're going 21/0/9, I'm assuming, but then you're missing the most crucial parts. You can go 9/0/21 with 0 repercussions. Again, you do slightly less damage, but you more than make up for it with tankiness, which you can use throughout the game. Since you can be in the frontlines, you're not worried as much. And, since I'm going 9/0/21, I get several things that help:

Reduced Summoner Cooldowns. This means if you have an exchange in mid, you will have your summoners before they do. This is important when dueling.
Increased xp. You reach higher levels faster. An extra level matters.
Increased hp regen. There's this little mastery in the Support Tree. It's called Strength of Spirit. You get 1% of your mana in hp regen. That about triples your regen. Even lvl 1 with 577 mana, that's a third of a health pendant. This works really well if you're tanky.

The things I don't have aren't many. I lose a bit of mpen, damage, and AP. Those don't matter to me, since my job is to hold the frontlines, not necessarily to nab all the kills, though I tend to do that anyway.

The difference between my Ryze and yours is my Ryze starts fights. Yours has to end them.

Your combo does about 1.8x my damage, but only because of lich bane. But, again, short range and poor AP scaling does not make him a good lich bane user, especially since you usually are casting too often to auto attack. I also get about 2.2x your tankiness, and if I'm focused, I can still last throughout the fight. WotA and natural hp regen work better with tankiness.

I also don't appreciate the rune choice, but that's a little different. I use a blue one to make my CDR at 40% fully built. This means the blue I would need can go to someone else, like the AD carry.

There's so many little things it adds that are better than increased damage. The only thing I really lose out on is pushing power, which Ryze has only a bit of. However, if your team just doesn't need any of those (because you have Malphite and Galio manning the frontlines or whatever), then your build wouldn't be too bad. I still would rather use that on Karthus, whose sole purpose is to die, but he's much more useful for auto-attacking, since you're not constantly smashing any button but Q. QAQAQA. Works much better.

tl;dr: Ryze is better tanky. He loses damage and gains tankiness, but can start fights and still do enough aoe damage to make the enemy team cry, and they can't insta-gib him.
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Bordellimies

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Random disconnects, as far as I know, nothing else really.
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Warmogs are like bacon, they make everything better and you can never have enough of them

Jelle

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As someone who used to play ranked with ryze often, +1 to webadict.
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frostshotgg

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Web, for the bit about his "full burst", I've seen somewhere say his ideal combo is something like QWQEQRQWQ. I've almost considered getting rylais just to see that work.
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Jelle

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Yep you got that right. Could pop the ult sooner if the situation is right, for the aoe and all.
Can't see why you would want rylaj, no mana on there. Rod of Ages might not have the slow but benefits him so much more if you want some health.
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