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[Werdna]

OK, was thinking of Master Yi, but a lot of people seem to like to play him (and the ones on your list) in the newbie games.  Are AP/AP-like (Ryze) characters not considered 'carries'?  Is it because their damage comes through bursty abilities and is not sustained like an auto-attacker?

Tanks use CC, and need to protect others, thinking on a different level. Play a tank after you have played a carry and found how useful ti would be to have a tank hit that guy that is attacking you away.

Would Amumu or Cho'gath be good choices for a beginner?

[Cthulhu]

I've carried with Cho'gath, Amumu is a horrible laner and while his ult is strong at low levels people won't know how to take advantage of it.

Cho'gath yes, Amumu probably not.

[umiman]

Ryze is an AP carry. Actually the poster boy of AP carries.

[cerapa]

Ryze is an AP carry. Actually the poster boy of AP carries.

I was under the impression that he was a mana carry.

[Synzig]

Please, please, please fix the OP.  Linking new players to Leaguecraft or Mobafire is nothing short of criminal.  If you're set on reading a guide to learn how to play, go to TSM.  However, following a guide word for word does little to train your game theory.  The best way to grow as a player is to watch professional streams and/or video guides which explain -why- things are chosen/bought/done.

Most mobafire guides are written by egotistical bads who generally premade with their "bros" and stomp underdeveloped disorganized pubs.  They will do little to refine you as a player, and if anything, will assist in forming bad habits that plague the ~1300-1400 elo bracket.

[Werdna]

Is TSM http://www.solomid.net/? (edit: n/m, it is)

The mobafire guides aren't all bad, I've found several with helpful videos showing things like the basics of zone control.  This one has been helpful.  But without full masteries and runes I feel like I'm playing a shadow of what they're describing if I try to follow the character guides exactly.

[xDarkz]

Is TSM http://www.solomid.net/? (edit: n/m, it is)

The mobafire guides aren't all bad, I've found several with helpful videos showing things like the basics of zone control.  This one has been helpful.  But without full masteries and runes I feel like I'm playing a shadow of what they're describing if I try to follow the character guides exactly.

They still work quite well. Runes and masteries are quite important, but if you're lacking a few, it won't hurt all too much because everyone else at your level will be lacking a few too. So you can feel free to copy guides and when you're confident enough, switch it up and adjust it by ear. Also, I highly recommend Ashe as a character you outta learn and master. In my opinion, she's one of the best AD carries due to her consistent slowing arrows and amazing across the battlefield ultimate, if you can aim it right. She's the first champion I'd learned and I still play her today, when we need a ranged carry. There's no getting away from an Ashe if she manages to hit you even ONCE with her slow, granted the opponent has already used flash.

I'm really glad you decided to take up LoL with such a wonderful mindset of filling the necessary roles. I've seen too many people go "Me Tryndamere," or "Mid or I AFK." It's ridiculously annoying and such a pain to work around that one only champion that they can play.

My brother just started a new account because I got a new computer. He's level 20, so if you're anywhere near there, I'm sure he'll queue with you. I would do the same, but I feel that the level difference and corresponding differences in runes and masteries, might make you want to RAAAAGE in some of those games .

[webadict]

Might as well queue with 30s. It's a faster way to learn.

[umiman]

Played LoL for like 20 hours these past two days. I think I got 2000ip...

=|

Meh... anything I spend IP on these days is just for vanity anyway.

Edit: I'm getting really sick of top lane these days. You can always, ALWAYS bet you'll get ganked super early. Level 2 ganks all the freaking time. And with most of the good junglers these days, there's literally nothing you can do about it. Even if the gank is unsuccessful, the jungler will shadow top lane for like 3 minutes, making it impossible for you to farm or do anything while the enemy happily does whatever he wants until your own jungler comes. And if your jungler doesn't come... then you're completely screwed.

Oh, and that's not the only difficulty, oh no... If you draft pick, top lane is so stupidly easy to counterpick. If you are forced to pick first without knowing what the enemy top lane is you might as well just surrender your top tower. Take Singed? HERE COMES GAREN! Take Jarvan? HERE COMES TRYNDAMERE! There is literally nothing you can pick top that is safe from counterpicking. It's not like mid where everyone is relatively of equal strength, the main problems are banned, and power is determined more from timing than from skills. No, if you get counterpicked at top, you lose. That's it.

It's so freaking hard and the benefit is so tiny that it feels ridiculous playing it. Worst of all, there's nothing I can do about either of these problems. No amount of playing better will save me when Udyr decides he wants to stay around top lane forever.

[webadict]

Played LoL for like 20 hours these past two days. I think I got 2000ip...

=|

Meh... anything I spend IP on these days is just for vanity anyway.

Edit: I'm getting really sick of top lane these days. You can always, ALWAYS bet you'll get ganked super early. Level 2 ganks all the freaking time. And with most of the good junglers these days, there's literally nothing you can do about it. Even if the gank is unsuccessful, the jungler will shadow top lane for like 3 minutes, making it impossible for you to farm or do anything while the enemy happily does whatever he wants until your own jungler comes. And if your jungler doesn't come... then you're completely screwed.

Oh, and that's not the only difficulty, oh no... If you draft pick, top lane is so stupidly easy to counterpick. If you are forced to pick first without knowing what the enemy top lane is you might as well just surrender your top tower. Take Singed? HERE COMES GAREN! Take Jarvan? HERE COMES TRYNDAMERE! There is literally nothing you can pick top that is safe from counterpicking. It's not like mid where everyone is relatively of equal strength, the main problems are banned, and power is determined more from timing than from skills. No, if you get counterpicked at top, you lose. That's it.

It's so freaking hard and the benefit is so tiny that it feels ridiculous playing it. Worst of all, there's nothing I can do about either of these problems. No amount of playing better will save me when Udyr decides he wants to stay around top lane forever.

Become the LoL.

Be the LoL.

[Yodamaster]

Please, please, please fix the OP.  Linking new players to Leaguecraft or Mobafire is nothing short of criminal.  If you're set on reading a guide to learn how to play, go to TSM.  However, following a guide word for word does little to train your game theory.  The best way to grow as a player is to watch professional streams and/or video guides which explain -why- things are chosen/bought/done.

Most mobafire guides are written by egotistical bads who generally premade with their "bros" and stomp underdeveloped disorganized pubs.  They will do little to refine you as a player, and if anything, will assist in forming bad habits that plague the ~1300-1400 elo bracket.

Fair enough. I've been neglecting it quite a bit besides for patch updates. I'll take a look at it and see what I can change around.

Would Amumu or Cho'gath be good choices for a beginner?

Amumu would be difficult for a beginner, but great at the intermediate-advanced level. Cho'gath is easier only because he's stronger in a direct confrontation, I found him ridiculously strong when I was at my low levels, commonly going 1 v 2 in lanes and winning. Once you get the hang of landing his Q you'll absolutely destroy and be ahead of the curve for a while.

[Synzig]

Played LoL for like 20 hours these past two days. I think I got 2000ip...

=|

Meh... anything I spend IP on these days is just for vanity anyway.

Edit: I'm getting really sick of top lane these days. You can always, ALWAYS bet you'll get ganked super early. Level 2 ganks all the freaking time. And with most of the good junglers these days, there's literally nothing you can do about it. Even if the gank is unsuccessful, the jungler will shadow top lane for like 3 minutes, making it impossible for you to farm or do anything while the enemy happily does whatever he wants until your own jungler comes. And if your jungler doesn't come... then you're completely screwed.

Oh, and that's not the only difficulty, oh no... If you draft pick, top lane is so stupidly easy to counterpick. If you are forced to pick first without knowing what the enemy top lane is you might as well just surrender your top tower. Take Singed? HERE COMES GAREN! Take Jarvan? HERE COMES TRYNDAMERE! There is literally nothing you can pick top that is safe from counterpicking. It's not like mid where everyone is relatively of equal strength, the main problems are banned, and power is determined more from timing than from skills. No, if you get counterpicked at top, you lose. That's it.

It's so freaking hard and the benefit is so tiny that it feels ridiculous playing it. Worst of all, there's nothing I can do about either of these problems. No amount of playing better will save me when Udyr decides he wants to stay around top lane forever.

You always have the option of taking top lane last.  Trading picks is super powerful, if under utilized in pub games.  The "easy" way to counter a camping jungler (especially early) is 'don't die'.  With the new jungle even a 30 second delay that doesn't amount to a kill is a massive nerf to the jungler's power mid game.  Doubly so if they're sitting in a bush sapping exp from their laner.  This also frees up your jungler either invade, gank or simply get ahead in clears gold/exp.

There are some top/jungle combinations which are a headache.. basically Tryn or Gang + anyone.  Or Lee Sin in general.. but more times than not responsible ward investment will keep you alive barring excellent play by one of their players or a mistake on your part.

With that said, I wouldn't want a Jarvan top on my team (no matter the matchup) or a Singed in a pub game.  Singed has such weak laning pre-six.  Everyone knows it, and those sort of blaring weaknesses can end games before they get off the ground.  As for Jarmander, I'm not too keen on him these days.  Even when played well, he doesn't benefit from insane farm nearly as much as someone like Cho or Irelia and he doesn't have the slight hint of carry which, I feel, is needed by a top laner.


On a slightly different note -- How do you lot feel about Sivir top?  I've been toying around with it a bit and the double AD carry comp seems to work these days.  She has unmatched pushing potential that can overwhelm most tops.  And then, when mid game comes around, you suddenly have 2 AD + a mage shooting at their towers.  Push comp #1 pubstomp.  Of course, it does take certain precautions.  Your support needs to be a pseudo-tank, be it Ali, Taric or Leona.  It also helps if your jungler can take a beating.  Bonus points if they're AP but almost anyone works.. Riven, the Dragon, Fizz, Mao, -Malphite-.  I figure Rammus or Amumu would work but I haven't played around with it enough to know. 

Special note goes to Malphite.. who, while slow to get off the ground, is hilariously strong.  His ganks rival anyone at six.  He can invade favorably once wearing doublebuff, has great lane holding, is immune to counter jungling (if you're responsible) and can build literally whatever he wants and maintain a certain level of utility/effectiveness.  Back when Funfires could stack he was all the rage.  The massive "nerf" (change) to his Q slow did make him a terrible lane partner for damage/damage bot but that meta has been gone for a year.. the MSPD leech is super fun on invades and his W is actually useful now.  The AOE right clicks makes jungling a breeze this is the age of the AOE jungle clear and you can press it to become stronger against right clicks while making your own relevant.

[Yodamaster]

AD top can work if it's pulled off correctly and against the right comp - for example, Teemo against Tryndamere. If the AD carry doesn't reliably dominate the lane however, the bruiser will have more of an impact for probably the whole game. And of course, there's the issue of tankiness. If you have two squishies, a support, a squish ap carry, and a jungler like Shaco that doesn't bode well for later on in the game. I would be skeptical of solo top Sivir, as even when fed she's not a hypercarry like Vayne/Graves or some of the tops like Riven.

Malph can do good top. I dislike him in the jungle only because his only hard CC to gank with is his ulti, which has quite a long cooldown. Otherwise it's just a slow and red, which works for some junglers, but I'd prefer the Warmogs Nocturne/pro skillshot Lee Sin. Not to say it's bad, just not my thing.

[umiman]

Stuff

I should really do the swapping thing more yeah, but there's no "smart ward play" in the world that can save you from a 1 minute 60 second gank. The changes to jungle, masteries, and clairvoyance has made the early level gank so ridiculously powerful that it's unstoppable. I have even yet to see a pro that has survived it. It's absolutely devastating, even if you don't die. Heck, all you have to do is look at the most recent WCG games and you can see the early level ganks absolutely wrecking top lane even against the very best players in the world.

It makes me consider purposely not last hitting the first 5 minions or so just so the lane pushes very deeply towards my tower.

[Synzig]

Welp, you're not playing against ~2100-2200 elo players.  Good positioning + Flash should be enough to survive against anything but the most clever Shaco or Lee Sin.  I don't play top without TP so it doesn't get you terribly far behind and their jungler is level 2 while yours is nearing on 4.  While I feel my theory is water tight, I will say that it is largely matchup dependent.  Surviving the level 2 gank is tough, and sometimes you just give up first blood.  It happens.. however, if you survive (no matter the amount of resources spent on it), you should be all but untouchable barring over extension or fantastic play by your opponent.