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Author Topic: League of Legends - Patch 7.22 - Runes Reforged  (Read 1284900 times)

umiman

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6135 on: December 07, 2011, 10:47:07 am »

Hey, MF is strong too! >:(

She used to give me nightmares when people took her solo top. She's one of the best laners in the game. Not simply passively safe like Caitlyn, but in that she can be incredibly aggressive right off the bat and there's generally nothing an enemy can do about it. Impossible to deal with as a melee champion. Hell, people should take her to fight Udyr or Yorick solo top, melee champions with no gap closers.

She's also excellent against a healy team, since unlike Tristana, she can alternate targets for her ignite passive and it barely costs any mana. So she's fantastic against Soraka, Mundo, Volibear, etc. Don't ever underestimate how strong that healing reduction is. It essentially does 50% more damage against a target!





I still adore my Sivir though hehe...

Luke_Prowler

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6136 on: December 07, 2011, 11:12:35 am »

I can vouch that. MF is an extremely annoying opponent to face, her ability to harrass you and push you around can easily screw up your early game which will negitively effect your late game. She's not the most powerful AD range champ, but she makes up by being a flat out pain in your ass.
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RedKing

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6137 on: December 07, 2011, 12:00:03 pm »

Here's a thought for a champion concept:

Kaos, the Primordial Form:

Passive: Kaos' respawn time penalty is decreased by 5% per level (alternately, just a random copied passive)

Q, W, E, R = Randomly copied from any other champion is who alive at the time that Kaos spawns.

Basically, no powers of his own, he just copies everyone else's powers at random. Once he spawns, he's set with those powers until he dies and respawns, at which time the game rerolls his powers, based on who's still on the field. Potentially very powerful, but also a real challenge to use (and to item build for). You couldn't min-max build him based solely around a single stat because your next batch of powers might be useless with them.

Also adds a bit of strategy in trying to time your spawn and/or trying to kill powerful enemies *after* Kaos has spawned in order to allow him a shot at copying their powers.

Would also be a serious wild card to play against, because you would have to pay careful attention to know his capabilities and counter them accordingly. And when you do manage to kill him, then you've got to start from scratch relearning what he's capable of this time. It's an inherently self-balancing character: if you're leet and never die, then eventually the other team knows all your tricks and can plan for them. If you die a lot, then you're constantly a wild card throwing a wrench into teamfights.

I guess he'd be a little like Mokujin in the Tekken series (hell, they could even use Mokujin as the basis for the character design, although I was picturing something more like an anthropomorphic form of liquid metal, like in Terminator 2.)
 
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Cthulhu

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6138 on: December 07, 2011, 12:25:13 pm »

I guess it might be fun for a few games, but way too mutable to actually be feasible.  If you're good with a champion, you should be able to expect to do well assuming you don't get outplayed.  Playing a champ like that is like rolling dice.  Since you have abilities interacting in ways the developers never intended, you might be obscenely overpowered one life and completely useless the next.
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cerapa

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6139 on: December 07, 2011, 01:09:32 pm »

That gave me an idea. I think we have already discussed the most powerful combo at some point, but what about the weakest?

I think karma ult, Zilean w, Alistair e. Cant find a q though.
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webadict

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6140 on: December 07, 2011, 01:13:00 pm »

Here's a thought for a champion concept:

Kaos, the Primordial Form:

Passive: Kaos' respawn time penalty is decreased by 5% per level (alternately, just a random copied passive)

Q, W, E, R = Randomly copied from any other champion is who alive at the time that Kaos spawns.

Basically, no powers of his own, he just copies everyone else's powers at random. Once he spawns, he's set with those powers until he dies and respawns, at which time the game rerolls his powers, based on who's still on the field. Potentially very powerful, but also a real challenge to use (and to item build for). You couldn't min-max build him based solely around a single stat because your next batch of powers might be useless with them.

Also adds a bit of strategy in trying to time your spawn and/or trying to kill powerful enemies *after* Kaos has spawned in order to allow him a shot at copying their powers.

Would also be a serious wild card to play against, because you would have to pay careful attention to know his capabilities and counter them accordingly. And when you do manage to kill him, then you've got to start from scratch relearning what he's capable of this time. It's an inherently self-balancing character: if you're leet and never die, then eventually the other team knows all your tricks and can plan for them. If you die a lot, then you're constantly a wild card throwing a wrench into teamfights.

I guess he'd be a little like Mokujin in the Tekken series (hell, they could even use Mokujin as the basis for the character design, although I was picturing something more like an anthropomorphic form of liquid metal, like in Terminator 2.)
I thought of something like this, but a little more different.

One skill would copy another champion for a few seconds. One of the skills was an echo, that replaced his skill with a nearby enemy's last used skill. Maybe I'll come up with one for that.

I also thought of another champ:

Quote
?, the Empath
Passive - Pity: Every time ? uses a skill, nearby enemies lose mana, rage, or energy equal to a portion of skill cost.
Q - Connection: (Passive) Tether duration is increased each time ? tethers a new champion. (Active) ? targets a champion. ? creates a tether between this champion and ?. Allied tethered champions take less damage, which is given to ? as true damage. Enemy tethered take a portion of damage each time ? takes damage from an enemy. This tether last x seconds and breaks when tethered champions move out of tether range.
W - Resonance: (Passive) Allied tethered champions and ? have increased health regen, and enemy tethered champions take magic damage over time. (Active) Allied tethered champions and ? gain x health. This passive is lost while on cooldown.
E - Commune: (Passive) ? has reduced cooldowns for each tethered champion. (Active) For x seconds, allied tethered champions and ? have increased movement speed, and enemy tethered champions have decreased movement speed.
R - Unity: (Passive) Tether radius is increased. (Active) Enemy tethered champions take magic damage. Allied tethered champions gain armor and MR. All nearby champions become newly tethered to ?.
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umiman

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6141 on: December 07, 2011, 01:22:54 pm »

It's been quite awhile since I subjected you guys to one of my mechanics lectures, so I thought I'd inflict some pain.

Let's talk about tanking. We'll call this lecture "Tanking 2.0".

I'm going to teach some more advanced techniques in itemization for any sort of tanking. And yes, tanking is 90% itemization. This is why you need to learn how to be cost efficient when it comes to tanking, because items means everything for a tank. So if you ever wondered why some tanks are invulnerable and why some are so fragile, I'll teach you. Oh yeah, and these are advanced tips, so I won't cover what exactly resistances and health are. Only more obscure stuff.

1. What exactly are you defending against?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

2. What is burst damage and why do I need to care?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

3. What is sustained damage and why do I need to care?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

4. Against Mages: Health vs MR
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

5. Are you dying to damage or to CC?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think that about covers advanced tanking techniques. I'll summarize.

Tl;dr:
1. Don't buy useless stats that don't help you
2. Buy health against burst damage
3. Buy resists against sustained damage
4. Health is better than MR against most mages
5. Positioning > any defensive stat

Nilocy

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6142 on: December 07, 2011, 01:36:20 pm »

on the final points, qss, qss, qss
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RedKing

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6143 on: December 07, 2011, 01:47:11 pm »

That was actually very useful. Thank you. I typically stack armor for Alistar unless I'm up against a lot of ranged casters like Annie/Ryze/Veigar, then I try to buy MR (or try to switch lanes). Need to rethink how I build.
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webadict

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6144 on: December 07, 2011, 01:48:27 pm »

on the final points, qss, qss, qss
QSS is one of the few MR items I'll buy if I have to. umi is pretty much spot on on the other points, except that MR might be more worth it considering how much health you have. Otherwise, yes, go for health.
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cerapa

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6145 on: December 07, 2011, 02:05:22 pm »

Why is health better against burst?

Burst is countered by having enough effective HP to live through it. It doesnt matter if it comes from health or resists.
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webadict

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6146 on: December 07, 2011, 02:10:30 pm »

Why is health better against burst?

Burst is countered by having enough effective HP to live through it. It doesnt matter if it comes from health or resists.
Cost efficiency.
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cerapa

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6147 on: December 07, 2011, 02:16:48 pm »

Why is health better against burst?

Burst is countered by having enough effective HP to live through it. It doesnt matter if it comes from health or resists.
Cost efficiency.
Cost efficiency doesnt care whetever you are taking burst or sustained damage.
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Bluerobin

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6148 on: December 07, 2011, 02:35:36 pm »

Yeah I don't get why health (or MR) would be better against burst than sustained damage. I could see always buying health instead of MR if you're going to argue cost effectiveness, like cerapa's saying, but I don't get the differentiation between burst and sustain.

Edit: MATHS (mostly unrelated now that I think about it though!). Level 18 Ashe with Warmog's: 3072 health, 30MR (base amount), 3994 effective health. Level 18 Ashe with Force of Nature and Null Magic Mantle (equivalent in cost to one Warmog's): 1702 health, 130MR (base + 100 from items), 3915 effective health. Both will survive a 3900 damage burst OR 3900 sustained damage and the total difference in effective health is really pretty negligible given the differences in secondary effects from the item builds. Really all this argues for is that it's better to have health than MR because it works against both physical and magic damage.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 02:59:55 pm by Bluerobin »
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umiman

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Fizz, the Tidal Trickster - 1.0.0.129
« Reply #6149 on: December 07, 2011, 03:01:15 pm »

Basically, because of the way Riot designed the damages and scalings of spells (if you notice, they're all really similar) vs the base HP of squishies, even if you have a ridiculous amount of MR, it won't negate enough to cancel out burst damage, especially at lower levels which is when mages are at their strongest. Tanks and tanky dps all have better scaling defensively, both in health and other stats, so it doesn't affect them as heavily. But the effect is still there.

Furthermore, at lower levels (again, where mages are strongest), base damages of skills are actually really low. So much so that damage reduction on these skills isn't really that much. It's the same for sustained damage, except most sustained damage dealers only come into force in the late game, where resistances shine.

Again, the easiest example is LeBonk. Anyone who's laned against a LeBonk must have wondered why buying a negatron cloak still resulted in death.

Mrm, if I were to use some simple math it'd be like this.
Quote
LeBonk can do about 1500 damage at level 10 with about 3000g worth of items, runes and masteries. She also has 30 mpen.
She's fighting someone with 1100hp at level 10 as well and 3000g worth of items. So this enemy either has 100MR (FoN + Null Magic Mantle) or a Warmogs (approx +1000hp). This champion has 30 base MR (means he takes true damage without items).

So the enemy with 100 MR would have 350hp remaining after the combo whereas the enemy with +1000hp will have 600hp remaining. Quite a big difference. About half.

I've taken a few liberties with the numbers, but I'm sure you understand the point. This is how Riot designed their game, all their mages work towards this principle, so it's not surprising it works like this. If you could buy MR with the same ease and cost as armour and health, then I'd definitely recommend you buy it instead. Too bad that's not the case though. It's quite frustrating actually.



Tl;dr: MR is very expensive and there aren't many viable MR choices. It's easier and cheaper to buy health and you get similar if not better results for the same amount of money spent.
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