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[Jopax]

WW is one of the strongest junglers in terms of sustainability, and you can pretty much go the usual jungle route (blue>wolves>wraiths>red>golems>gank) without any runes.It will be slower than most others but he will stay alive trough it if you go the usual cloth+pots combo.A good gank should secure you the gold you need for madreds and then some for possible wards and potions, after that go jungle if you have to renew your buffs, do dragon if you can get some help or gank some more if you can pull it off without the buffs.

What level are you currently Cthulhu?
It can help to play around with masteries if you want to speed up your jungle or be a bit safer while jungling.

[Cthulhu]

I'm level 15, and 5/0/10 currently.

I forgot about the changes that other players would bring, I've only done solo custom games.

[V-Norrec]

T'is true.  As Udyr (who I think is one of the best junglers out there) I actually have a lot of points thrown into defensive masteries.  By end game very few can stand up to the might of hybrid Phoenix-Tiger Udyr death machine, not because he does so much damage, but because he will outlast you and if you try to run, you are already dead (go bear form)

[Jopax]

A pull can make a big difference but it isn't neccessary with WW, heck you can even go without smite on Blue in some cases.Untill you hit level 20 i think it would be wise to throw 3 points into defense for that extra bit of armor, it might not seem like much but it can be great help early on as it will keep you alive and at higher health.

[Fikes]

WW is one of the strongest junglers in terms of sustainability, and you can pretty much go the usual jungle route (blue>wolves>wraiths>red>golems>gank) without any runes.It will be slower than most others but he will stay alive trough it if you go the usual cloth+pots combo.A good gank should secure you the gold you need for madreds and then some for possible wards and potions, after that go jungle if you have to renew your buffs, do dragon if you can get some help or gank some more if you can pull it off without the buffs.

What level are you currently Cthulhu?
It can help to play around with masteries if you want to speed up your jungle or be a bit safer while jungling.

I do not understand how you can say this. Even with masteries I have to pot to beat twins now. I wouldn't dream of starting blue without a pull. I always go cloth armor, pot, ward.

[umiman]

Without runes, Warwick can't do the standard jungle.

He has to do Wraiths, Wolves, Golems, bluepill, blue, wolves, wraiths, red, golems.

[Jopax]

Hmmm, must have been a while since i played runeless WW then XD

[umiman]

I tried out Nu-Kayle on the US server with my no runes / no masteries smurf.

Impressions:
1. Avatar profile is butt ugly.
2. Basically has unlimited mana now.
3. Heal is seriously pathetic before level 4 (50hp... 65hp...) with a huge cooldown. The only time I'd use it before that is for the movespeed.
4. Q got nerfed super big time.
5. E damage is quite nice now and makes it quite easy to farm (combined with the infinite mana thing).
6. Ulti is really nice with the change.
7. Basically a Teemo with super long range and invincibility. That's not a bad thing.

I'm still convinced old Kayle was superior, but this new one could work with a few buffs.

[Dakk]

I like how tryndamere doens't look like an angry midget anymore.
Also HOLY SHIT INCOMING CHAOS MARAUDER TRYNDAMERE.

[umiman]

Hrm, apparently a full flat AD runepage gives you +21.69AD at level 1.

Erm...

That's kinda scary actually. I did this calculation because I fought an Ashe that had that. Every time she volley'd, I lost half my health.

Edit: An Ashe at level 1 with full AD and 21 0 9 will start with 77.37 AD.... at level 1...

@.@ That's 1/4th someone's lifebar lol... And with her crit it'll be 1/2 their lifebar. And with a volley it'll be 3/4th their lifebar. I can get behind that.

[Cthulhu]

I love Ashe's straight-out-of-the-gate half health harass, totally gets the laning phase off to a good start.

But you know what I hate?  Fucking everyone.  Get into queue with Veigar, Morg, Wukong.  I go Ashe.  Fifth guy finally connects, instalock Tryndamere.  What the fuck?

[Astral]

Hrm, apparently a full flat AD runepage gives you +21.69AD at level 1.

Erm...

That's kinda scary actually. I did this calculation because I fought an Ashe that had that. Every time she volley'd, I lost half my health.

Edit: An Ashe at level 1 with full AD and 21 0 9 will start with 77.37 AD.... at level 1...

@.@ That's 1/4th someone's lifebar lol... And with her crit it'll be 1/2 their lifebar. And with a volley it'll be 3/4th their lifebar. I can get behind that.

It's nice, but runes also give things that you can't get through items alone (AKA, free armor penetration, movespeed, etc). Having magic resist runes means you can delay getting a Banshee's, unless you prefer going a complete glass cannon build. I personally find being able to negate all of an opponents armor at level 1 more useful, while having extra reliability against any pesky nukes slightly better, though. May work on Ashe, but your mileage may vary on other champions.

[webadict]

Hrm, apparently a full flat AD runepage gives you +21.69AD at level 1.

Erm...

That's kinda scary actually. I did this calculation because I fought an Ashe that had that. Every time she volley'd, I lost half my health.

Edit: An Ashe at level 1 with full AD and 21 0 9 will start with 77.37 AD.... at level 1...

@.@ That's 1/4th someone's lifebar lol... And with her crit it'll be 1/2 their lifebar. And with a volley it'll be 3/4th their lifebar. I can get behind that.

It's nice, but runes also give things that you can't get through items alone (AKA, free armor penetration, movespeed, etc). Having magic resist runes means you can delay getting a Banshee's, unless you prefer going a complete glass cannon build. I personally find being able to negate all of an opponents armor at level 1 more useful, while having extra reliability against any pesky nukes slightly better, though. May work on Ashe, but your mileage may vary on other champions.

Maybe he just wants the FB? That's enough of a psychological edge to allow superior laning. Especially if you 4-shot someone.

[umiman]

This game, in my mind, is about snowballing. You must obtain the early game advantage in order to cruise through the rest of the game.

On one hand, I could have 29 arpen and do 10% more damage to enemies all game. OR.

I could start with 80 AD and obliterate enemies in 4 hits for super easy laning.

Some people prefer the first. I prefer the second myself.

[Knirisk]

super easy laning.

That depends. Are you good at last-hitting? I've seen some players who are just... terrible at last-hitting and just end up pushing the lane without getting much gold at all.