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[penguinofhonor]

If you can't understand gold value and diminishing returns, there's no helping you understanding this topic.

What do you mean? I'd say in our theoretical model, the rammus being able to take another 4000 damage is worth a lot more gold than the ashe being able to take an additional 1250. It lets him get a lot more tankiness out of the tank items he gets, meaning that every single defensive item purchase is worth more gold. The ashe doesn't get the multiplication with the damage items she's buying.

[eerr]

Armour doesn't have exponential returns.

Armour doesn't have diminishing returns.

-Armour has linear returns. (In terms of effective health, incase you didn't know.)
It linearly increases your effective health.

*rolls eyes.

If you multiply it with health or regen, you go exponential.

But just barely. (X to the power of 2)


If someone buys the last whisper the linear scaling is cut by 40%. So 40% of that bonus effective health is lost vs someone with last whisper.

[Micro102]

Translate it the other way, and the person with last whisper only does 9-11% extra damage. Depending on the amount of armor the enemy has.

[umiman]

More theorycrafting time.

Ever since the game where I fed as Twitch and still had the same amount of gold as solo lane Ashe, I've been seriously considering the value of gold/10. So I ran a quick test.

I took Morgana with all the gold stuff (gold/10 quints, masteries). Started with Regrowth Pendant, no pots, flash teleport. Without killing any bots and just farming, here's the results.

- Philo stone at 3 minutes. Blue pilled to buy it and teleported back.
- Deathcap at 13 minutes. Blue pilled to buy it and teleported back.

At 13 minutes I had 89 cs and no champion kills. So if we assume each creep to be worth 20 gold, I got around 1780 gold from creeps. The total amount of gold I earned at 13 minutes was 4400 gold. Thus, 2620 gold was earned from the base amount and the gold/10.

To give a comparison, the 'normal' time someone gets a Deathcap if they were rushing it is 21 minutes. Someone getting super fed will probably get it at 15 minutes (but this includes boots).

I'm not sure what to make of this, but I'm very interested in testing this further.

[Ahra]

HAHAHA TEEMO DIES 2 000 000 TIMES A DAY, I AM HAPPY 

[Errol]

First include boots, Umi. I think that's gonna add another 3 minutes.

Or was that already in the Philo buy?

[Bluerobin]

That number's high Umi.

Base = 14 per 10
Philo = 5 per 10
Masteries = 2 per 10 (+40 gold if you took that one)
Runes = 3 per 10
Total = 24 per 10 (starting when minions spawn at 1:30)
After 13 minutes (11.5 of actual passive gold gain) that's 1656 (or 1696 with the bonus 40) gold. With JUST the base gold you get 966 (345 from philo, 138 from masteries, 207 from runes). Minions are worth more than 20 on average after 4:30, so that's where the discrepancy is (especially if you're farming against bots and are able to get more minion kills).

Now that I've actually done the math, I'm kind of debating not getting my philo stone on Karma and just going mana crystal -> boots -> catalyst -> deathcap. Or, y'know, learning to play other champions better.

[umiman]

That number seems high, but it doesn't explain how I actually got 4400 gold in 13 minutes.

And minion gold increases by 1 every 5 minutes. In this case the gold earned would have been capped at 24g and 18g... so even 20g is a low estimate since a majority of the 13 minutes is less then that. Besides, I don't know about you, but I normally get 100 CS by 13 minutes, not 89. Especially since I was playing Morgana. I just wanted a lower CS number so I missed the first wave to simulate super heavy harass. So in practical terms, this is actually a really low estimate.

The end result is this. Somehow, with all the gold/10, I managed to get 4400 gold by 13 minutes. How did this happen? Where did the gold come from? You can try it yourself. Gp/10 quints are super cheap. Even if I increased the average gold to 25 on minion kill, it's still only 2225 gold. That's barely 1/2 of the required amount. And if we go by your numbers, that's still 500 gold unaccounted for. So unless I managed to secretly kill 4 dragons as part of the 89 cs, something is going on that we can't see.

This is what I mean by "I don't know what to make of this".

I also took the gold/10 into two normal games as jungle Skarner and jungle Shyvana. In both cases I actually managed to get Wriggles by 6 minutes even though I didn't kill anyone yet. I didn't buy another gp/10 item in these though.



Tl;dr: gp/10 might be bugged somehow and is giving more gold than it actually is saying.

[Bluerobin]

Ahhhh I see now. Yeah, sounds about right, I've got gp10 quints so I'll do a bit of testing.

[umiman]

Right, I did the experiment again. This time without any CS at all. Bought the Philostone at 4 minutes. Here's the end result.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So about 1230 + 800 gold. 2030 gold. Again, I think that's pretty significant considering I have zero CS and still have enough for boots 2 at 13 minutes.

Edit: I found where the discrepancy was coming from. It's from the 475 starting gold.

[KaelGotDwarves]

HAHAHA TEEMO DIES 2 000 000 TIMES A DAY, I AM HAPPY 

For anyone who wants to see the infograph - warning - large.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Dakk]

1197 YEARS AGO THERE WERE VIKINGS

[umiman]

25th Nobember, 21 skins will be 75% off:

    Sasquatch Nunu
    Nottingham Ezreal
    Blacksmith Poppy
    Masquerade Evelynn
    Scuba Gragas
    Spectacular Sivir
    Mr. Mundoverse
    Toxic Dr. Mundo
    Swamp Master Kennen
    Hextech Sion
    Yellow Jacket Shen
    Red Riding Annie
    Leopard Nidalee
    Dragon Knight Mordekaiser
    Sonoran Kog'Maw
    Kingpin Twitch
    Professor Ryze
    Shamrock Malphite
    Highland Tryndamere
    Pharaoh Amumu
    Badger Teemo

After which they will be removed for sale. There are some pretty nice skins there. Kingpin Twitch. Red Riding Annie. Pharaoh Amumu.

[Bluerobin]

So... that was really fun, especially the second game where I got to play Taric. I forgot I hadn't really played him since his rework. He has a lot of burst now... killed Vayne in lane twice. Thanks for the invites Lucky/Rebecca.

[Yodamaster]

The Vlad Legendary skin is 100% sexmazing.

I already have Marquis, though. If his buffs are good enough I might get the Legendary.