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[Flying Dice]

Yeah, WW is one of the kings of the jungle right now.

Funnily enough so is Pantheon. Because of how the dragon works now, he can solo it at level 3 without taking any damage.

Panth can safely solo at level 2. Nidalee can solo at level 1.

Do you run attack speed runes for that? I've not had a chance to test it yet.

[frostshotgg]

I don't know exactly the build, but I think between Q, W and autos t regular AS you can do the level 2 drag with panth. Nid level 1 doesn't need anything, although cdr probably makes it easier. It's just about mashing W.

EDIT: Also, just to emphasize just how bullshit Warwick is with Skirmisher's Saber, foxdrop recommends taking smite on top lane warwick. Smite on a laner. It's insane.

[Flying Dice]

Mm, I'm not sure about the level 2 if you're just running flat AD. When I did my level 3 test, I was running 10% CDR + ~10% AS, and even using abilities to bridge the gap it was close at points. I could be wrong, though; the real way to tell would be to calculate the dragon's attack speed and go from there.

[Cthulufaic]

I run flat attack speed runes anyway, I dun think I'll have a problem with getting my passive up.

Almost 50% with masteries.

[Flying Dice]

That'd do it, yeah.

--

Okay, I was wondering how broken WW really was with 4.20. So I bought him and played my first WW match ever.

Spoiler: Rito patch when? (click to show/hide)

Incidentally, the temp buff from dragon is really nice.

[frostshotgg]

You didn't actually play him right though. You should never, ever, ever not get Skirmisher's Saber. It's an instant ignite that lets you use smite on non-objectives lategame.

[Flying Dice]

Whoops, so I was, haha. Force of habit to grab Ranger's.

That said, just finished a second perfect game, so it's not mattering as much as it should.

[Arcvasti]

I've mostly been playing Shyv and Mumu jungle. Both of them are as fun as ever. And I LOVE the new Stalkers Blade[The one which gives Smite a slow and reduced damage vs champions] on Mumu. Waddling after an opponent who flashed away with Bandage Toss on CD? Just Smite them, catch up and secure the kill. Or just kill them with the Smite. Which is hilarious every time. As for WW, the only Warwick I met was AFK, so I can't judge that. Theorycrafting time: Would the thing that makes his ult so powerful also work with Fiora? Or did they just give up and make her ult not proc on-hit effects anymore? And...

Kalista. One of the few champions I hate supporting above all else. Maybe if I was with a duo-queue partner I was skyping with. Who was competent. Instead of being dragged out of my half finished Leona stunlock by her ult unexpectedly, leading to both our deaths from lack of communication. Although the rest of her Oathsworn thing works out surprisingly well most of the time[12% of max health for something easy enough to proc? Hell yeah.]. I foresee the next few weeks to be hell for most supports. Or until people realize Kalista is hard and go back to playing Jinx. I LIKE Jinx. Jinx is fairly simple to play, so fairly few utter failures and easy to kill when its them. Kalista bounces around so you can't hit her with much and throws Leona at your head[With mixed results]. Nasty on their side because ALL THE KITING. Nasty on your side because you usually get hung out to dry with her ult.

EDIT: Rangers is easily my favourite jungle item so far, although Stalkers is cool too. Rangers lets you push ALL THE WAVES while clearing ALL THE CAMPS. Although the early sustain it gives you doesn't matter as much as I thought it did. Skirmishers seems like its the sort of thing that makes people like Yi or Warwick broken. Not sure how it'd work on Shyv. I'd much rather have another slow, so I can reliably catch up to fleeing prey. Going to have to experiment with this.

[Flying Dice]

I don't really recall re: Fiora's ult, but you'd have to make the judgement call on whether or not it was worth losing an item slot and ignite for. Likely not; part of what makes Devourer so good on WW is the synergy with his kit and Wit's End; all of them are about AS and on-hit magic damage. That first game I played ended up at around 120 damage per hit on my Devourer. So a WW ult with that + passive + Wit's End would deal [84(base) + 42(WE) + 120(D) + 16(Pass)] = 262 per hit. 262 * 5 = 1310 damage from his ult, minus MR (save what you reduce from the Wit's End shred), plus whatever you'd get from smiting them first, plus the scaling from the AD and the % health damage if you have a BoTRK. That's nearly enough to no-save 1HKO a squishy, and following it up with a Q + AAs is almost guaranteed kill on non-tanks.

[Skyrunner]

I wanted to play ranked all day, but "the server is currently busy" and I can't log in...

[Sharp]

The new banner of command seems pretty hilarious as well, siege minions can outrange turrets so if enemy team doesn't have much ranged AD you can safely poke and protect the minion while it takes down towers.

Smite on laners is looking pretty powerful actually as a substitute to ignite, running Leona bot lane purple team with smite is hilarious as you can get the thornmail buff from Gromp which makes zoning super effective. Tempted to try a Leona or Rammus purple botlane with Cassiopea for hilarious nukage. Blueside just better for tower pushing I guess.

Also double smite helps for getting dem dragon stacks.

[Flying Dice]

Heh, one thing I saw done was a support Pantheon who pretended to back after a bit of soaking exp, then sneaked around to stealth dragon. He managed to do it three times before anyone noticed. I really like how much S5 jungle has shaken up the meta, even if some things aren't particularly balanced. All we need now is a buff to Urgot's lockon range.

[frostshotgg]

Hm, I gotta say. The new jungle has made the game the most fun it's been in a long time. Even if you're laning, the fact that junglers exist to do more than just gank means less pressure and early ganks are no longer win/lose lane which is great. On the jungler side of things, it feel so, so damn good to be able to carry games from the jungle again.

I've noticed the game has been at it's most fun state (if not necessarily healthiest) when junglers aren't relegated to being gank/tankbots. In season 1, when there was a meaningful choice in exactly who you picked for jungle because it totally changed the flow of the game for everyone, in mid season 4 when feral flare made other champs than elise and lee sin and j4 and the like good, and now.

[Putnam]

the fact that junglers exist to do more than just gank

That sounds optimistic of you, unless you just mute everyone (not unreasonable).

[Baneling]

Honestly, jungling Warwick a couple times in the last few days felt just like an especially hardcore lane. I didn't gank much 'til 6 and then only if it was well set up when I happened to be in the area.

Then again, I'm a bad jungle in lv. 10 MMR so that's not exactly representative of a higher level of play

EDIT: Just like to clarify that I only did this until I solo'd dragon when I got Devourer on my Skirmisher's Sabre at which point I had ult and could force engages while roaming. One game I went 1v2, all full build, against Olaf and Graves and won. You can indeed carry out of jungle now.