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[Cthulhu]

A lot of players just cycle through whatever's OP at the moment.  When something gets nerfed they all drop it and say it's been gutted.  I haven't played Kha'zix since his prime but he was really nasty back then.

[Arcvasti]

Well. Veigar. Why does he have a 2.5 second instant stun in an AOE. It annoys me.

[frostshotgg]

Because that and his capacity to kill are the only things that prevent him from instantly dying any time someone is in sight, and he can only instagib 1 person at a time. He trades a LOT for his damage.

[Arcvasti]

I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense. Still annoying.

[Cthulhu]

They don't call it the rage cage for nothing.  If you can avoid getting stunned by it you can easily kill him.

[Bastus]

Veigar is the archetype of a nuker. He can melt nearly everything in seconds, but after the first or perhaps second burst he is useless for at least 10-15 seconds which is a long time. Still I love him since I started playing and from time to time I pick him to melt some Ahri's or Fizzs at midlane who think they can outsmart his ult (the can't.).

[frostshotgg]

Amusing that you mention fizz, because him and yasuo are the only two midlaners that can.

[Arcvasti]

Spoiler: Reason #1 Why I don’t like Veigar stun (click to show/hide)

 Veigar's cc doesn't line up with the standard. Fiddle and Rammus had their fear and taunts nerfed because they were too long. They were single target, short ranged hard cc  with a duration as Veigar's stun. Veigar's stun is the longest duration hard cc in the game[Correct me if I'm wrong]. Usually, hard cc is accompanied by a dodgeable skillshot or something similar[Braum or Skarner passives good exampless], except when its short duration or range[Taric's E or Mega Gnar's W]. Most of these restrictions are lifted on ults. Cass's ult, for instance, does instant long-lasting AOE stun which is difficult to dodge. Sona's ult follows a similar formula: Near instant, AOE, medium duration stun. Gnar's ult is stronger then the previously mentioned ults, but is limited by his form changes. All these AOE ult stuns are heavily limited by cooldown and[To a lesser degree] by mana. And they're all less powerful then Veigar's. Or, at least, the stun aspect is. The aforementioned ults outclass Veigar's stun in damage and, often, in range. Which probably make it comparable in overall power[Especially with a team to take advantage of the stun for you] with the above ults. And this is Veigar’s E. Veigar’s ACTUAL ult is annoying too, but I am much more accepting of it.

^Please correct me if I’ve made any mistakes in the above or if my logic has any major flaws in it. It feels like I’m missing something here.

Spoiler: Reason #2 why I don’t like Veigar stun (click to show/hide)

Because being stunned for 2.5 seconds is no fun.

Amusing that you mention fizz, because him and yasuo are the only two midlaners that can.

Wait, how do you dodge Veigar stun with Yasuo. I've never played him against anyone but bots, so I have no idea how you'd go about it.

RE : Gnar :

Just played my first game against Gnar. Jungle Gnar. He fed me 4 kills early on. He killed me 1v1 really easily once he finished elder lizard. . I was Nasus top. His max hp thing HURTS. A lot. Especially if you’re a tank. His ult didn’t seem too ridiculous when he used it to wall stun the whole team and generally seemed in line with most other teamfight ults. His W needs some balance changes though.

[Cthulhu]

It's /very/ short range.  LIke I said, if you don't get killed instantly, if he's in stun range he's in kill range, and he dies very fast.

[Solymr]

Yasuo can block Veigar's ult with his wind wall.
Zhonya can also make Veigar look real bad, but good luck doing anything while you're stunned for 2,5 seconds.

[Flying Dice]

That's exactly it. It's on a long duration, so if he misses it, he's dead, either right then or a few seconds later. Even if he does land it, if he blows his load on the target and that + maybe a second Q isn't enough to 100-0 them, either he's dead or he loses all of his CDs for no result. Once you're teamfighting, if he doesn't get perfect positioning, he dies without doing anything.

Hell, you can counter him just by playing pretty much any of the AD midlaners -- that spikes his ult damage and means that he's trying to land the stun on a champion with high mobility/escapes.

Additionally, you can't treat the stun as -just- being 2.5 seconds. That's at max rank, and it's typically leveled last. Shorter than 2-2.5 seconds and the target has time to escape a lot of his burst, especially if they have a gapcloser. Really, Veigar trades a lot more for massive single-target burst than quite a few other champions do; he neglects mobility and tankiness, whereas most other burst mages/assassins have good mobility.

The one gripe I have about the stun is how misleading the visuals are as opposed to the actual hitbox.

[IronyOwl]

It's /very/ short range.  LIke I said, if you don't get killed instantly, if he's in stun range he's in kill range, and he dies very fast.

It's also wonkier to land. The fact that it persists helps make up for some of that, but comparing it to blanket, everything-in-range moves like Cass' or Sona's ults isn't really fair.

[frostshotgg]

Ashe's arrow is 3.5 seconds, and I think Morg's Q is 3 seconds at max rank. The thing you're not accounting for is that Veigar has a huge tradeoff for having such a powerful stun. That skill could be a dash, or anything other than his only way of making a target stay still that also happens to be his only way of not dying when a stiff breeze passes by.

I max stun second as veigar. Dark matter has a good enough ap ratio to be 1shotting waves from q farm by level 13 anyways, no point in maxing it.

[Arcvasti]

I'm not really saying its unbalanced. If I was, I am no longer saying its unbalanced. I'm saying its not fun to be hit by and its easy to get hit by. Morgana Q is easyish to dodge and if someone can land an Ashe arrow from the distance it takes to charge up to 3.5 seconds, I really don't mind getting stunned for that long, simply because its so awesome.

I max stun second as veigar.

Same. Leveling W before E makes it ridiculously hard to hit anything with W.

[Flying Dice]

It's particularly painful laning against something like a Talon or Kha'zix. Fuck that noise. :x


ARAM Veigar, on the other hand... Bwehehehe, the stuns are too real.