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[Cthulhu]

While I'm being negative, what's everybody's least favorite champ?

Mine is Ziggs.  Annoying face, too many icons, irritating sound effects, and holy fuck is laning against him awful.  If you can dodge his skillshots it's one thing but not really since he also has ridiculous self-peel and disengage.  And because he wasn't annoying enough he also has an AA-enhancer on his kit.

And his kit is hard to read.  He throws bombs as his attack, he throws bombs as his spells, it's hard to tell what he's doing, sometimes his Q looks like his passive, sometimes his passive looks like his Q, sometimes it doesn't look like his passive went off at all, I don't even know what's going on with it.

[Frumple]

So far it's been karthus and gragas, for me. I could not land either of their qs if YWHW itself smote my enemies into immobility and granted me the accuracy of a saint of archery.

Playing against... I never really find myself annoyed by being on the receiving end of something. Just the playing side of it.

[Arcvasti]

Ziggs and Cait. They're both cut from the same cloth. Annoyingly long ranged poke champion with very few weaknesses. You lose TONS of health getting close enough to them to cc them and then they just Net/Satchel Charge away and TROLOLOLOL. Ezrael can get to that stage sometimes, but is usually not AS bad.

[Flying Dice]

Playing against is Ziggs without a doubt. Those bouncing bombs are such absurd bullshit. Veigar is a close second for much the same reason: the hitbox on his stun is really, really hard to judge.

Playing... I don't really have any I hate to play, but I do hate playing Ahri when I have high ping, because pretty much everything about her depends on precision and reaction speed. Same with Akali, Nidalee, Ezreal, &c.

[IronyOwl]

Fizz and Jayce are sort of my go-to hatred champs. Slippery high-damage fish and (now less) obscene poke combined with high damage and knockbacks and speedups and mana restore because why not. Haven't played against either in forever, though I did get Jayce in ARAM reasonably recently. Completely incompetent, but that was okay because it only took the barest hint of competence to be useful.

On a considerably less negative note, I tried jungle Yi a few times and found I didn't like it. It worked, and I like farming jungle instead of actually doing things, but I tend to think of the purpose of a jungler as getting your laner a kill by holding someone down, not just bursting out of the bush and murdering their opponent before vanishing into the trees again. Will probably stick to Warwick jungling for that reason, though he seems to have a sort of mirror of Yi's other problem, wherein if your laner is so far behind they can't do anything with your suppress, there's absolutely nothing you can do to help them.

[Cthulhu]

Oh yeah, Fizz is a fucker too.  Another strong case for gold-loss on death, like Vayne and Akali.  Doesn't really matter what you do to him, as soon as he gets Sheen he's gonna start racking up the kills with xxxSickOutplayzRektxxx button.

That last part though, I think that really applies to everybody unless you're just fed out of your mind.  I tend not to gank for lanes that are losing badly.  I'm more of a Weakest Link kind of guy.  Morale's fragile, find the weakest link in the enemy team and pound on it until it breaks.  If bottom's winning, I'll head down bottom and grab a double kill, turn the other team's rough lane into a disaster.  That's how you win.

[Flying Dice]

Getting a kill on the enemy laner at the very least means that your laner probably bags assist gold and gets free CS for a wave or two if they don't shove and back, leaving aside the potential for diving and counterganking. That said, if a Yi just sits in the jungle and farms FF stacks, they're not being a good Yi. The beauty of the champion is that you have sufficient mobility to pressure lanes, counterjungle, and farm, and lategame (at least with my build) you are a monstrous splitpusher and can solo Baron without taking damage. Obviously it's a situational pick, but if the enemy team has little or no hard CC a properly played Yi can easily snowball his laners while maintaining decent farm.

Hell, with my setup, between Ghost, Highlander, and Youmuu's active, you should always be able to charge into a lane, burst down the enemy laner (either for a kill or a forced back), and then run back into your jungle. That's one of the key things, you don't even need to kill someone for your gank to be effective, if it gives your laner free farm/tower damage or puts the enemy too low to trade or fight (if they stay, you can always come back a few seconds later for a second go and kill them -- in either case, this is arguably better than straight up killing them, because it wastes more of their time and gives your laner more time to build an advantage), and even better if you burn a flash on someone -- and with Yi, you can do that in ten seconds outside your jungle.


Also, I forgot about Fizz. Fuck Fizz. :x

[frostshotgg]

Personal hateds for me are a toss up between Teemo, Nidalee, and Yasuo. The former two seem like they're just made to suck to play against, and they only get worse over time. Remind me why oracles was removed again? And Yasuo can fucking come back from anything. It doesn't matter that it takes him 30 minutes to finish his shiv, the moment he does he's suddenly relevant to the game again.

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, I'd like to see Oracles back in the game, not sure what why they got rid of it.  Sweeping lens doesn't really cut it.

That seems to be pretty common in league, the coming back from anything thing.  It's a tough line to walk, if there aren't enough comeback mechanics then it's just a matter of waiting 20 or 30 minutes to lose a game you know you can't win like a lot of games of Dota (the very defined power curves alleviate that a bit, depending on the comps, but still), but if there's too many then you get the League situation where you have to be savage with any early advantage because it'll melt through your fingers the moment you let up.  That's why I don't like top.  It doesn't matter how hard you stomp your lane, you're so far from the action that you throw your advantage away as soon as you try to make something of it.

I've had games where I fed my ass off as Vayne and as soon as 45 minutes came around I started triple killing.

[Flying Dice]

I'm almost tempted to say that they removed Oracles as a stealth buff to Lee Sin. :V

On another note, 6300IP get, indecision get.

[frostshotgg]

Oracles was taken out because teams would stick it on someone who wouldn't die and they'd just run around the map clearing all the wards so people had to play super safe which was boring to watch. But shrooms were designed with oracles/stealthed pinks in mind and now that they're gone they're really out of place.

I single out Yasuo in particular because while most other champs can play catchup and eventually become relevant, Yasuo doesn't play catchup, he plays get rekt but then hit an arbitrary benchmark and suddenly he's relevant. This applies to a lesser extent to champs like Jax and that's part of the reason I ban him.

[Flying Dice]

Clarification: I know. I was (attempting) to make a joke.

[frostshotgg]

Oh, I was explaining to Cthulhu, didn't notice that you'd replied.

[Flying Dice]

Derping on my part, then.

Oracles fell into that bad part of the game where, when available to an organized team, it nullified certain champions, but to a bunch of low-ELO soloQ players did absolutely nothing because it was rarely bought. It was in a problematic spot as well because of the absurd gold efficiency if you used it to clear wards in a game where people actually used wards frequently.

What I'd like to see would be the return of a modified Oracle's that can only spot non-champion objects, aka shrooms, Shaco boxes, and green/trinket wards. Given the pink trinket, scanner, &c, there's already plenty of potential for free ward clearing, enough that Oracle's would basically be a niche buy for facing a Teemo or Shaco, without wrecking the ability of an Akali, Rengar, Kha'Zix, Talon, Twitch, Teemo, Wukong, Shaco, or Vayne to make plays with their kit. That was really the problem there, that for 100g/minute a team could completely nullify every champion that used stealth to engage, escape, or avoid damage.

[Skyrunner]

For only 100 gold a minute, I can make you ... stealthless.