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[Seriyu]

E first, check! Everything's starting to come together. Thanks everyone!

I also tend to have issues holding back pushing, but arguably that's a lot worse of an idea in top lane what with the tower distance. I am slowly learning that if I push I'd better be damn ready to get out of dodge in case things go south, however!.

[frostshotgg]

No, definitely max Q. It's such a painful nuke and you get soooo little out of ranking up E. And in the matchup of Kayle vs Vlad, you should've been playing crazy aggro. Vlad gets dunked if you all in him constantly early on, because without time to Q harass/heal Vlad's only source of damage when you all in him is E which also hurts him. When he inevitably runs away, take that time to shove the tower.

[Seriyu]

I did notice I got my kill when I hounded him constantly and ended up chasing him towards my turret somehow, it did feel like the pokes really weren't doing anything, but if I pushed him hard enough he'd back off. Lessons learned!

EDIT: I guess the lesson here is if the guy has a lot of sustain the Q is good because it takes a chunk out of him, and if you can whittle the other guy down, the E works, with the notable advantage of not having to worry about going back for mana.

[Seriyu]

More questions without all the flourish - I've been giving Ryze a try and I'm quite liking him, managed to push an akali out of lane, a first. I usually just get bullied myself, ended up losing, but there were a variety of problems with that game, notably a yi that singlemindedly went to jungle and killed wolves and wraiths over and over again, and litterally did not speak until about a minute before the game ended.

But is Ryze's passive worth investing in over AP? I thought so, but I also got yelled at for building manamune (how do those items change into the next tier up by the way? How do I accumulate mana charges or whatever?), which would eventually give a whoppin 1k damage. Wiki says it's something small like a few% of max mana, but it also actually actively suggests manamune! I'm not sure what to think.

[Sharp]

Manamune on Ryze is nice. You get mana charges with Tear by using your abilities, once you get manamune you can also do it with auto-attacks and once you reach full charges it transforms into Muramana which you can toggle to do more damage with your auto-attacks and spells.

Rod of Ages is better though. You can build ryze easily by just stacking Rod of Ages.

[Flying Dice]

RoA is probably the best Ryze build I've seen, yeah. Personally I'd add in an Archangel's; once that transforms into a Seraph's you get the 1k mana boost and extra mana regen, but you also get an extra 3% of your mana converted into AP (as opposed to 2% to AD), and you get a pretty strong mana shield (150HP + 20% of mana converted to HP) rather than extra AA damage as your active. So in other words you both get the benefit of 350 more mana from that slot (at the cost of health and AP), but you also get an AP buff that scales with mana. If you're running a boots/archangel's/4x rod build, that AP passive is capped at 108AP (purely from item stats, not including your natural mana or mana gained from masteries/runes), rather than the 80AP you get from a max stack rod. You'd only want to build Manamune if you were building a hybrid, and that really doesn't mesh with MP-galore Ryze builds.

Bought a couple mystery skins. First one was Nurse Akali, but the second one was Cottontail Teemo. I guess it evens out. 

(how do those items change into the next tier up by the way? How do I accumulate mana charges or whatever?

Different items charge differently. Archangel's adds +8mana every time you expend mana, Manamune adds +4mana every time you autoattack, cast a spell, or expend mana.


e: Ahahahahaha, just played a One For All Heimerdinger match. The other team picked Fiddles, and every single time they tried to ult into any of us they instantly melted from the turret fire. XD

[Sharp]

Manamune works fine on Ryze though because once it upgrades the item fires of 3% of your current mana to do physical damage of 6% of your current mana with auto-attacks and single target spells. This proc's on Ryze's Q and W which makes it a very powerful punch. Your E doesn't get any benefit but doing the extra nukes with physical damage can be very useful when enemies stack MR against you, and the additional AD makes pushing down towers and inhibs a lot quicker.

Tbh I would rather have 4 RoA, Muramana and boots, you don't need the mana shield that much but doing the extra damage is great.

[Flying Dice]

That's a valid point, but you also have to consider that Manamune builds charge slower (unless you're actively pushing lane with AAs), so it might not be as viable if you upgrade your Tear later in the game. Basically it depends on whether you want to play him as a pure burst nuker, or add that staying power that Muramana gives your AA. I'd probably take Mana if we were already ahead and it was relatively early, but Arch if I upgraded the Tear later, or if the match had gone more towards teamfighting or was already late-game where that extra push power was less important.

[frostshotgg]

Ryze shouldn't be autoing though. He should be too busy mashing every single one of his keys and orb walking to be autoing.

[Flying Dice]

That's my logic, but apparently there are people who want to hybrid him.

Just had a 12/1/something Rammus match that ended up as 2v5 when most of our team ragequitted. T'was delightful.

[webadict]

Ryze shouldn't be autoing though. He should be too busy mashing every single one of his keys and orb walking to be autoing.

Well, actually, he should be autoing to maximize his damage, but actively autoing is not his forte. With the spell range decrease, he should now be in auto attack range on his target whenever he uses a spell, so he should get off a few auto attacks in between spell cooldowns.

More questions without all the flourish - I've been giving Ryze a try and I'm quite liking him, managed to push an akali out of lane, a first. I usually just get bullied myself, ended up losing, but there were a variety of problems with that game, notably a yi that singlemindedly went to jungle and killed wolves and wraiths over and over again, and litterally did not speak until about a minute before the game ended.

But is Ryze's passive worth investing in over AP? I thought so, but I also got yelled at for building manamune (how do those items change into the next tier up by the way? How do I accumulate mana charges or whatever?), which would eventually give a whoppin 1k damage. Wiki says it's something small like a few% of max mana, but it also actually actively suggests manamune! I'm not sure what to think.

I do not suggest Manamune on Ryze anymore. The Archangel's is way better, due to the wanted shield. Since Ryze is a short range mage, building tanky is preferable. Damage comes as a side effect to this, due to the item choices he has. As such, I'll recommend a few ways to build him.

Depending on how you like to play (Aggressive, defensive, passive, pushing), you can start with
Flask + 3 pots (Good all around start)
Mana Crystal + 2 pots (Aggressive start, begin bullying immediately)
Faerie Charm + 6 pots + ward (With the addition of trinkets along with the mana costs on Ryze, this is for if you really need the sustain)
Boots + 4 pots (If you need the health pots or movement speed, which you typically don't)

On your first back, build one of Tear or Catalyst.

Tear is for more damage, and if you don't need the survivability.
Catalyst has great sustain and survivability, at the cost of damage and delaying Tear.

Once you pick up both and your boots, try to figure out what you need next. Grabbing a RoA is a great thing to build early. It gives Ryze Health, Mana, and AP and becomes stronger as the game goes on. After that, start grabbing tankiness or damage, depending on what you need:

Boots: Choose between Merc Treads or Sorc Shoes. I'm a big fan of Merc Treads on Ryze, but some people will swear by Sorc Shoes, but Merc treads are the safer buy (If you need the MR and Tenacity). If you're facing heavy auto attackers, grab Ninja Tabi.
Archangel's: Stacks Tear faster, AP for Mana, tons of Mana. Amazing item on Ryze
Frozen Heart: Tons of Armor, tons of Mana, and tons of CDR. Amazing item on Ryze.
Spirit Visage: Tons of MR, tons of Health, tons of CDR, and increases your Spell Vamp healing. Consider this as suitable MR replacement for Frozen Heart.
Rylai's Crystal Scepter: Need Health and some more CC? Comes with free AP to use as well. The slow helps if you really need it.
Banshee's Veil: Only build this if you need more MR. The removal of Mana on this item hit Ryze really hard.
Liandry's Torment: Tons of Health, tons of MPen, and tons of damage. This item is if you really, really, need to dish out damage, but the enemy isn't building much MR.
Void Staff: AP and MPen. Build if you need to deal damage, but the enemy is stacking MR.
Randuin's Omen: Frozen Heart isn't enough Armor? Boom. Built in slow active, along with bunches of Health and Armor.

Your overall goals are this:
Get 40% CDR.
Get Mana.
Never die.

If you accomplish those, you'll usually win.

Safe build is:
RoA, Archangel's, Merc Treads, Frozen Heart, Spirit Visage/Banshee's Veil, Rylai's. Is it the best? No, but it gets the job done.

And if you really want to grab Manamune after Archangel's, then at least grab Iceborn Gauntlet, so you can make more use of the AD. You might as well go big if you're going to do it.

[webadict]

EDIT: Stupid forums.

[Hyo]

Manamune / Muramana is more or less retarded on Ryze at this point. The lack of APen on Ryze makes its damage too low compared to that of AAS and its mana shield, while a two tear build is... viable if you're curbstomping, but otherwise proves to be horribly slot-inefficient since it takes anywhere from 15~20 minutes to charge up a tear, assuming laning phase.

Also, I am slightly horrified at webadcit's build. Ryze's range nerfs hit him hard in terms of mid-lane matchups, so going the conservative catalyst-tear build is basically asking to be bullied to hell, while merc treads just don't offer any firepower over at top. Not to mention the lack of MPen as a carry.

Also, I question the validity of Rylai's - you're already going to have ~3500 health along with the additional resistances - is Rylai's really worth the cost, or the slot, in terms of what you could have gotten? Like a Void Staff? Consider that as Ryze, you have melee MS, and you are likely to take MS runes. Ryze does not lack chasing power - and Rylai's is also a horribly inefficient item, especially considering Ryze specifically.

My top lane Ryze build is: Tear-Ninja Tabi-Catalyst-FH-RoA-AAS-SV in that order. Catalyst actually takes a backseat to Ninja Tabi because MS is crucial for Ryze to survive in top lane matchups; sometimes I forgo the catalyst to finish off a glacial shroud instead if I need the extra power.

Also, yes, RoA is a great item, incredibly efficient in both stats and slots. Unfortunately, it's a luxury, not a core most of the time for me, as there are so many issues to deal with.

[Jopax]

I think the Rylai is mostly there to make you extra sticky since you only get one form of CC, and extra slow on everything is pretty damn useful for chasing or running away.

Also, any reccomendations on what a good APC for mid play would be? With Xeraths impending rework I'm not sure I'll keep playing him that much, so a change might be the way to go.

Been considering Kassa but he seems to be permabanned on my level of play, plus he would definitely take a while to master.

[Cthulufaic]

I'm trying to see if I can make a Saxton Kayle(AD-focused and high health/defence) work.  It's kinda hard since I basically have no clue what I am doing and this is just for funsies, so anyone got any tips?