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[Graven]

YEAAAAAAAAAAH

[webadict]

Well, that spoiled the game.

[Seriyu]

More small questions. Been doing a bit better I think, having some isues with using garen in top lane but I'll be trying a new thing or two so I'm not quite ready to go all "HOW TO GAREN" yet. I've also been watching some youtube league videos, nobody super great, and it's from an old version.

I notice only the support characters are taking wards. Is that still relevant or is what I've heard about everyone taking sight wards all the time forever true?

And something I've basically been wondering, compared to what I heard from earlier which is "kill jungle mobs if you happen to be nearby them in the jungle". Is this void if there are junglers? From what I understand they hit pretty much all the jungle mobs possible pretty hard so I'd imagine taking potential gold/exp away from them is a bad idea, yeah? Just a random thought I wanted confirmation on.

EDIT: OH! Actually one garen question. I assume with courage, you take one point early on to get the passive and then leave it alone while you work on offensive skills? Or is it worth ranking? I've heard at high ranks it turns Garen into a helltank but I have to say I haven't really had the opportunity to see that in action, and at low ranks, while it helps on a retreat or whathaveyou, it doesn't seem worth sacrificing offense for it.

[Chaoswizkid]

I notice only the support characters are taking wards. Is that still relevant or is what I've heard about everyone taking sight wards all the time forever true?

It's generally agreed upon that "Vision wins games." If you have the map revealed, you can see the enemy's movements, and if they don't place wards or if you remove their wards, they can't see what you do. That's free ganks, free escapes, free buff steals or free towers. The issue is that wards can be costly and take up an important inventory space. Supports are balanced such that they don't need as many items to be effective, and most of the items they buy are auras or other support-esque items. They also build gold-per-ten items and usually take the gold-per-ten runes to compensate for not getting much cs. That's why supports are mainly responsible for warding for their team. However, top lane and the jungler should also be buying wards, as the jungler can use it to help protect a lane or give better vision for an opportune gank or for counter jungling, and top lane needs that top brush at the river constantly warded as it can be very easy to get pounced on. Mid lane will also sometimes buy wards if they are getting harassed by the jungler or if they are winning the lane and fear a jungle gank that might even the odds.

And something I've basically been wondering, compared to what I heard from earlier which is "kill jungle mobs if you happen to be nearby them in the jungle". Is this void if there are junglers? From what I understand they hit pretty much all the jungle mobs possible pretty hard so I'd imagine taking potential gold/exp away from them is a bad idea, yeah? Just a random thought I wanted confirmation on.

The thing to take into consideration is that jungle camps have a respawn timer and your jungler isn't always going to be in the jungle. If you can kill the jungle mobs and have them respawn before your jungler would get there to kill them, then you're just maximizing the potential of the jungle. You'll sometime see blue's bot lane kill bottom golems while their top and mid help the jungler out at blue buff.

Still, the only person on your team that can really say when the jungler will get to those camps is the jungler, so you should always ask if it's okay to take one of the camps and not be upset if they say no.

[Sharp]

Well now that they changed Garen's courage so it only increases bonus armour and mag res by 20% you don't even really need it early that much, 20% of bonus is equivalent at early level to 2 extra armour and 1 mag res, not a great deal when you can increase the dmg of your spin2win. It does depend on the enemy though because although the 20% bonus armour/mag res is pretty low early levels the 30% damage and CC reduction active can be a life-saver against some champs, mainly the ones with heavy nukes or stun combos like Renekton and Riven, vs someone like Xin or Tryndamere though it's not really needed as the Q is enough to escape and who cares as you will be spinning away if they come close.

If they have a stun and nuke then get that W, if it's a slow and nuke then it depends, with the passive Garen can trade quite well and out-heal his opponent so you don't need the 30% damage reduction that much and if they have no stun then it's fairly easy to escape any fight you can't win.

[Seriyu]

Okay, good. Grab courage later unless they're nuking the hell out of you. Thank yah, very helpful!

[frostshotgg]

Still take a point in it at level 3 or 4. It's a free boost and the % reduction is always great for escaping.

[webadict]

I notice only the support characters are taking wards. Is that still relevant or is what I've heard about everyone taking sight wards all the time forever true?

It's generally agreed upon that "Vision wins games." If you have the map revealed, you can see the enemy's movements, and if they don't place wards or if you remove their wards, they can't see what you do. That's free ganks, free escapes, free buff steals or free towers. The issue is that wards can be costly and take up an important inventory space. Supports are balanced such that they don't need as many items to be effective, and most of the items they buy are auras or other support-esque items. They also build gold-per-ten items and usually take the gold-per-ten runes to compensate for not getting much cs. That's why supports are mainly responsible for warding for their team. However, top lane and the jungler should also be buying wards, as the jungler can use it to help protect a lane or give better vision for an opportune gank or for counter jungling, and top lane needs that top brush at the river constantly warded as it can be very easy to get pounced on. Mid lane will also sometimes buy wards if they are getting harassed by the jungler or if they are winning the lane and fear a jungle gank that might even the odds.

Here's the thing about wards: You buy them whenever you can. You should buy at least one ward if you're at the base and have the gold. The only player that might not buy wards is the ADC since he relies on items, and it delays him a bit. But, I would never fault one for buying wards.

Wards cost 75 gold. Every ward you buy can potentially save your life or the life of a teammate. Every time you die, you give the enemy team ~300 gold along with losing experience and gold from missed cs. So, even if 1 in every 4 wards stops a death, you've paid for the ward.

It's everyone's responsibility to ward. It's everyone's responsibility to stop the enemy's wards. The support just happens to have a greater focus on wards. Wards win games.

[Sharp]

Still take a point in it at level 3 or 4. It's a free boost and the % reduction is always great for escaping.

See that's the common misconception, early game the passive part of the skill is really bad, you don't get a huge bonus while if you spend the extra point on E and Q you do a lot more damage and the Q can help you escape by giving you a longer movement boost as well as a longer silence but really as Garen you need to be aggressive early game and although the W is great for mitigating damage it's much more effective for Garen to just deal more damage as Garen can just wait in a bush and suck his thumb for a few seconds until his health regens.

I would say get W at level 5. Level 5 you get Courage if you are winning lane because once you hit level 6 it's great for doing a tower dive, a well timed rank 1 courage can take 2 tower hits (activate it just before you get hit), 60% less damage from tower is huge bonus but 60% less damage from an enemy champ isn't too much.

It really does depend on the matchup though, if it's Renekton or Riven then a W can be great as they have an obvious initiation for their combo to give you time to get W ready. Even without W putting on your spin before the stun means you will be dealing lots of damage as well so it's not fatal to not get a point in W until level 5 even vs Renekton or Riven but it is quite useful to have W if enemy has a stun, mainly so you can catch up to them while spinning.

[frostshotgg]

You don't get w for the passive portion early on. You get it because its active component singlehandedly wins all-ins.

[Seriyu]

I put the advice I got about Garen's W to use, along with my new idea, and while I did get a double on the upper lane I'd say it went a bit better. I went offensive with items a little early (IE got a brutalizer), before I started working on defense, and my hits seemed to be going better. Pumping judgement as opposed to evenly raising decisive and it prolly helped a bit too. A pity we lost that game. At least it was entertaining!

I honestly don't think the W is so drastic that it wins stuff by itself but it does certainly help, and it's entirely possible I'm just not quite good enough at 1v1 to see the difference.

Another question, with masteries, I'm starting to get enough points to actually think about splitting into other trees, I'm mostly focusing on defensive (all points in it in fact), got seven points, should I be branching out yet? I tend to get in a bit too deep at this point, and I feel in the future I'll likely continue playing aggressively so I'm wondering if I should keep defensive to counterbalance that, or offense in to help that out more? I realize this is a pretty vague question so general advice for all heroes or whatever is fine. Thanks again everyone!

[tompliss]

In fact, it is great versus early heavy-hitters, such as Riven, I think.
Versus Riven, you should start with armor items (as she can only deal physical damage, even with her skills), and deal those in a fairly short time if she wants to. If you manage to buy a total of 50 armor early on, the passive portion will really help you more, even if generally, you may not take it really early.

[Skyrunner]

Re masteries: generally people put 21 points in one tree and 9 in another, because you need 21 points to get that last powerful mastery.

[Sonlirain]

Ok question... what's the difference between top and bot lane anyway?
I mean... they're both simetrical and the only thing that makes them different is Nashor/Dragon... at least to my eyes.

[Spaghetti7]

Ok question... what's the difference between top and bot lane anyway?
I mean... they're both simetrical and the only thing that makes them different is Nashor/Dragon... at least to my eyes.

As far as I can see, and this isn't coming from a pro or anything, top usually has a durable melee champ who could or should take the lane solo while the jungler is off on their escapades, while bot is usually a squishy ranged/melee carry who needs supporting from another player.
If you're asking why it's that way; Not a clue.