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[IronyOwl]

Intermediate bot games should be fine. You don't need to relearn the wheel, just brush up and figure out what the fuck a Botrk is.

I'd offer more specific advice, but I honestly don't remember what's changed from Kha to now.

[Orangebottle]

Okay, I guess I'll try getting back into things.  Any advice for jumping back in?  I'm level 30 and was pretty decent (my solo queue elo is like 1400) but I haven't played since Kha'zix came out.  That means I know none of the new items, haven't seen the new interface, or anything.

I'm basically starting a new game I've never played before, but at max level getting matched with above-average players.

Cthulhu. I have to tell you something. You...you may need to sit down for this.

*deep breath*

There is no more elo.

[Angle]

Well, there is, but it's hidden now.

[penguinofhonor]

And as usual, not as fond of the new stuff. I can understand them wanting to have distinct factions and so on, but it feels like they weakened everyone's lore so they could arbitrarily dump them into either peace-loving or war-mongering, then handed Lissandra an ally by having a random troll king discover her secret.

Trundle doesn't know her secret, he just decided to be her ally in exchange for her not killing him. Now he's waiting for the opportunity to backstab her. I think it adds to her faction's identity that her only champion ally isn't a true one. It also gives their storyline room to be advanced.

And the only changed lores I find weak now were mostly weaker before the changes. I'm looking at you, Gragas.

[IronyOwl]

Trundle doesn't know her secret, he just decided to be her ally in exchange for her not killing him. Now he's waiting for the opportunity to backstab her.

I might still be confused. Is Lissandra known to be the leader of the Frostguard and the Ice Witch known to be evil, but nobody knows they're the same person? Or is it just out in the open now that the Frostguard aren't what they seemed or what?

I think it adds to her faction's identity that her only champion ally isn't a true one. It also gives their storyline room to be advanced.

It might if it was better done. It feels really rushed to me- some troll thugs his way past her guards, allies with her, then goes back and becomes king. If that was cutting out more nuance, then yeah, it might be a good story. As it stands, it feels downright random.

And the only changed lores I find weak now were mostly weaker before the changes. I'm looking at you, Gragas.

I liked how Olaf was from a mystery land nobody knew about, and was trying to get home but also waaaaaaaaay too savvy to let the Summoners trail him there. Now he's just kind of an infeasibly stereotypical viking. Wants to die in glorious battle, can't because his rage is too strong. Which is also kind of stepping on Tryndamere's toes.

The exact manner in which it's done seems really, really weak, too. He's not old, he's not decrepit, he's not retired, but his literal plan was to go out and get himself murdered on the spot. Even for a people obsessed with glory and viewing death as inevitable, that's really pushing it.


Gragas... I dunno. Old Gragas at least had refuge in mundanity- he didn't have any grandiose ambitions because he didn't really want much out of life. New Gragas has a purpose and a faction, but the former's kind of asinine (and worsely-explained than Old Gragas' magical leakage mutations) and the latter's pretty weak.


The rest are kind of borderline or positive, I suppose. Sejuani's probably better, Ashe's changes are fairly trivial, Trynd's changes are nice in that they're intriguing and cut down on the number of Noxus Killed My Family Want Revenge-motivated characters, but also make him seem less directed and organized and more like a lone berserker, which I'm not fond of. Nunu I preferred as a human yeti to a Disney Freed-Beast/Rebellious-Kid duo, but at least he has more motivation than nothing now, I guess.

[Frumple]

Heey... Quinn's kit is. Kinda' neat.

Somewhat terrible, but neat. I sorta' enjoy the way she plays -- the e in particular is neat*, and I enjoy the R's two-tone transformation/nuke. But the passive (and subsequently, the passive effects on the w) seems iffy, mostly due to inconsistency. Vault helps with that, but there's that little problem where you vault at something and they just laugh and throw hard CC in your face. Passive'd be nicer if it just didn't target wave minions (barring supers, perhaps) or small jungle creeps, I think. Also, as other noted, the range is kinda' low.

*Though being vulnerable during the dash and retreat is kind of a bitch. Would be nicer with some damage/CC mitigation added to the process. Not invulnerability, but less damage and reducing stuns/pins caught during the jump/retreat to slows...? Knockup proccing the retreat instead of causing knockup? That might be interesting.

[tompliss]

The decision making of Quinn's passive was posted somewhere (and verified), and seemed "normal". As in focusing on things that attack you,  then champs > big creeps > creeps, something like this. So in lane, Val may target a creep when the enemy champ is just near, but there is in fact a reason ^^

[Angle]

Quinn's passive actually has pretty good targeting. The only complaint I have with it is that it will sometimes focus the minion I'm currently killing, and have it die before it fully activates.

[Frumple]

Hrm. Guess I was either not paying enough attention or having terrible luck, then. I kept having it focus on creeps I had no intention of shooting while champs I wanted to whack or creeps the extra damage would have moved into last-hit range were hovering a bit behind 'em. Guess it'd be pretty decent once you got used to it, or something...?

[Angle]

Eh. It frequently targets a minion I'm not currently targeting, but that's usually helpful to me, because I can hit that one and get the attack speed buff, which lets me second hit that minion to death and then hit any other minions I happen to want to target.

They do need to have it not target minions you've already fired the killing blow at, though. Or have it still give you the sped buff if you kill that minion before the buff is actually placed. Or not have it consume the buff if you kill the minion before the buff is placed. Any of those.

[Orangebottle]

As for Quinn, I really like her, but she's hard to use in teamfights late game. Hopefully these changes will change that.

There isn't Hope.
Her whole character concept doesn't fit in League of legends...
Look at the melee ADC. Is there any played as a melee (except for the noob bashing tryndamere, who keeps being here thanks to his ult) ?
Quinn's ult makes her a melee carry, effectively nerfing her(except to chase fleeing ennemies and flee after a split-push), and her basic range is pretty low...
Damn, even her spells lower her DPS easier than other ADC who get those (Caitlyn ...), because of the animations ...

And if you wanna laugh a little, watch carefully the video of her buff : every time, she dies. I kid you not. EVERY TIME.

Her ultimate is good for running away, ganking, stealing objectives(dragon, baron, buffs), backdooring...
It's one of the most versatile ultimates in the game. It's not bad at all.

[tompliss]

Her ultimate is good for running away, ganking, stealing objectives(dragon, baron, buffs), backdooring...

If you use a ultimate with a long cooldown, and damage (both with the buff & the ult's ending) to flee, it's like using malphite's ult to flee through the jungle : it's wasting it ...
It's good for ganking, it clearly is. the bad point being that she nearly need it to gank.
(most other ADC have a good dash/MS-boost (not one requiring to be nearly in AA range) or a long range slow to gank).
It's not good to steal objectives. I mean, if the ennemy team let you steal baron/drake, they're just bad. A single targeted immobilization/stun is enough to kill you, if YOU steal baron/drake. If it's your whole team going to steal baron/drake, then you're the classic ADC, and your jungler should be better to steal (with smite).
(Not saying anything about buffs, as anyone getting em should theorically be in bush and specially aware of SSs when against a quinn.... :s )
Finally, when backdooring, Quinn has a great flaw : she's the squishy ADC. of course, she can backdoor, but she'll get hit hard by turrets (as any ADC), and even if she has that awesome MS, she has no dash to flee through walls. Nearly every ADC (except ashe ?) got either a dash or a MS buff (even if it's clearly not such a powerfull buff), but others don't use their ult...

I know she can be played correctly at nearly any level, and the fact that most players don't know her that much increase her potential, don't get me wrong, but ... she lacks something ...

[Alkhemia]

So did magma chamber ever come out?
Have not played since lulu came out so it been a while.

[Angle]

Quinn's E is a dash and a slow, and her W gives you MS buffs when you shoot things targeted by her passive.

[Frumple]

... Quinn's E is only a dash in a sort of technical sense. It's not a gapcloser or a repositioner, it's a pretty piss poor way to dodge effects, and you can't run away with it at all (caveat: Unless I am seriously missing something). It is a (very involved, quite flashy) slow (+ministun) and some damage, as well as a means to set your passive on something, but I wouldn't really call it a dash. Unless there's a way to cancel out of it or something. It puts you pretty much right back where you started, otherwise.

It does works differently while you've shifted into valor (it's a plain gap closer then, if still not really anything else. Kinda' like Maokai's thing.), but base Quinn, it's definitely not a dash in the conventional sense.