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[PTTG??]

I remember making one of them. Actually I think was the very last unofficial one and only went for a few pages.

[Keldane]

I embarked with two fifth level teachers, with one level in fighting skills like axe dodge and shield.  They sparred till they were legends then I gave each one a squad of skill-less dwarves. After the squad skills up, rotate in a new group of newbies.  I was trying to see if a legendary teacher was a viable training option compared to sparring.  They really didn't even seem close.

The key here is the Student skill. The Teaching skill is effective on its own, but nowhere near as effective as when it's used in combination with Student. That said, immigrants with the Student skill seem few and far between. Perhaps a new custom workshop - a Study? - with a reaction designed to improve the Student skill would be useful.

[MrWiggles]

I embarked with two fifth level teachers, with one level in fighting skills like axe dodge and shield.  They sparred till they were legends then I gave each one a squad of skill-less dwarves. After the squad skills up, rotate in a new group of newbies.  I was trying to see if a legendary teacher was a viable training option compared to sparring.  They really didn't even seem close.

The key here is the Student skill. The Teaching skill is effective on its own, but nowhere near as effective as when it's used in combination with Student. That said, immigrants with the Student skill seem few and far between. Perhaps a new custom workshop - a Study? - with a reaction designed to improve the Student skill would be useful.

The main issue here, is a poor feedback as to why training isn't goin well, or why it is going well. There's personality conflicts. The Dorfs needs the right personality traits to be a good teacher, and have a teaching skill + the weapon/armor skill or activity skill. Then you also need the Student dorf to have the right mix of personality traits and the student skill.

It does work, but we dont have good feed back to make it work.

[darkflagrance]

The main issue here, is a poor feedback as to why training isn't goin well, or why it is going well. There's personality conflicts. The Dorfs needs the right personality traits to be a good teacher, and have a teaching skill + the weapon/armor skill or activity skill. Then you also need the Student dorf to have the right mix of personality traits and the student skill.

It does work, but we dont have good feed back to make it work.

Argh, training via the traditional method is more complicated than I thought, and so easy to render ineffective. It wouldn't be half as bad, even without the feedback, if student skill was easier to come by, or if acquiring student and teacher skill were essentially minor speedbumps to simulate the slowness of starting an army from scratch before you quickly built up effective drill sergeants. The effectiveness of teaching is nullified by the fact that the most effective teachers can't drill multiple dwarves at once.

Although, the current system that makes it quite hard to train up melee dwarves DOES encourage the tactic of mass green civilians with crossbows deployed against enemy sieges. Isn't mass conscripts with effective and deadly ranged weapons that don't require much training a common real life tactic? ;P

[Areyar]

That. And the minersquad ofcourse, ramming picks through rock and armour in equal measure.

[darklord92]

"mass conscripts?" Do you mean the cheese makers and farmers? There have been a a lot of angry farmers through history why do you think I brought the war scythe back in my sergal mod

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

[orius]

Although, the current system that makes it quite hard to train up melee dwarves DOES encourage the tactic of mass green civilians with crossbows deployed against enemy sieges. Isn't mass conscripts with effective and deadly ranged weapons that don't require much training a common real life tactic? ;P

Cannon fodder is probably about the most useful way of utilizing all those damn cheese makers and potash makers, dissectors and animal caretakers.

[Dae]

Although, the current system that makes it quite hard to train up melee dwarves DOES encourage the tactic of mass green civilians with crossbows deployed against enemy sieges. Isn't mass conscripts with effective and deadly ranged weapons that don't require much training a common real life tactic? ;P

Cannon fodder is probably about the most useful way of utilizing all those damn cheese makers and potash makers, dissectors and animal caretakers.

Plus it generates training for the surgeons.

[Cruxador]

"mass conscripts?" Do you mean the cheese makers and farmers? There have been a a lot of angry farmers through history why do you think I brought the war scythe back in my sergal mod

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

Why would you add a war scythe when the game doesn't even include peace scythes? The whole point of then was that they were really easy to make from a normal farm tool, but we don't actually have that farm tool.

[darklord92]

It's assumed the dwarfs have the tools at the workshops already, so hoes rakes wheat scyths would already be at the farm plots. we already have a few tools implemented in vanilla such as morter pestle but they aren't used in workshop construction. So possibly in the futer we may need to make tools to build our workshops, that or make them more efficient.

[Niveras]

"mass conscripts?" Do you mean the cheese makers and farmers? There have been a a lot of angry farmers through history why do you think I brought the war scythe back in my sergal mod

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

Why would you add a war scythe when the game doesn't even include peace scythes? The whole point of then was that they were really easy to make from a normal farm tool, but we don't actually have that farm tool.

For the same reason that anvils exist, but an anvil is required to create a forge to cast an anvil.

Also, the dwarf's 'peace' scythe is, like so many tools, his beard.

[darklord92]

hence why it's for the sergal mod sergals don't have beards. Just another sign of an inferrior surface dweller though

[isitanos]

Argh, training via the traditional method is more complicated than I thought, and so easy to render ineffective. It wouldn't be half as bad, even without the feedback, if student skill was easier to come by, or if acquiring student and teacher skill were essentially minor speedbumps to simulate the slowness of starting an army from scratch before you quickly built up effective drill sergeants. The effectiveness of teaching is nullified by the fact that the most effective teachers can't drill multiple dwarves at once.

I've mastered pretty much everything else to the point of finding DF pretty easy (unless I unleash the HFS of course), but THIS "revamp" of the military got me to stop playing. Managing a military (both training and reliably equipping them) is SO incredibly frustrating now that I doubt all the recent additions will bring me back to the game (and donating), unless it's fixed.


Edit: I'm not asking for a dumbing down, far from it. But streamlining the interface a bit, giving more feedback to the player and maybe putting a better sense of military discipline in those idiots (with military justice if they don't obey) is really essential.

[Rockphed]

Edit: I'm not asking for a dumbing down, far from it. But streamlining the interface a bit, giving more feedback to the player and maybe putting a better sense of military discipline in those idiots (with military justice if they don't obey) is really essential.

And then we would just need to find a single duty bound dwarf to be the commander, rather than a duty bound dwarf for every leadership position.

[zwei]

Neat, justice screen got nice quality-of-life improvement!