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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1205545 times)

Areyar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3150 on: December 05, 2011, 10:22:22 am »

Another big factor in the problem is that items don't wear out at the moment.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3151 on: December 05, 2011, 10:37:02 am »

Certain world-gen goods do decay according to this dev post. So assuming that bone crafts decay, it probably is the mass of bones you can get from butchery.
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Hectonkhyres

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3152 on: December 05, 2011, 11:36:47 am »

It strikes me that we need a landfill system.
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Sizik

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3153 on: December 05, 2011, 12:32:50 pm »

Having just taken a basic economics course, I'd suggest implementing a basic supply and demand economy (although, worldgen seems a bit lacking in the demand area at the moment).
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Greendogo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3154 on: December 05, 2011, 12:43:51 pm »

Using the bones in villages as a major source of fertilizer for their crops (bone meal) would make a great way to decrease the number of idle bones filling up the town's stores.
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caknuck

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3155 on: December 05, 2011, 01:01:49 pm »

Sizik:

Toady is already starting to model supply & demand in worldgen. He is just having balance issues related to bones (as a byproduct of slaughtering livestock) and bone crafts. We're offering options to help with the balancing.
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Fieari

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3156 on: December 05, 2011, 01:17:15 pm »

When modeling demand for objects, is it done by a hard-coded object class (ie, all food has this demand, weapons have that demand, art has the other demand, and so forth), flat aspect (everything is equally in demand, and supply is the only concern), or is there an element in the raws that determines how it much it will be used during worldgen (set plump helmets to low demand and sun berries to high demand, modifiable to the other way around if we want)?
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Greendogo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3157 on: December 05, 2011, 01:41:07 pm »

"Bone Folders" were used in book making and to mark fabric.
Bone char can be used to filter water and to whiten sugar at a refinery.
Bones can be used as fish hooks and all kinds of needles (knitting, sewing, awls for leatherwork).
They can be used to make buttons, or sent to a furnace to make calcium-phosphate ash which can be used to make bone china.

They can of course be used to make woodwind instruments like bone flutes, or even bone china instruments for the wealthy.

The bone meal though, that one is still probably your best bet for using large piles of bone for one purpose.  As fertilizer.
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Areyar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3158 on: December 05, 2011, 01:46:04 pm »

"Bone Folders" were used in book making and to mark fabric.
Bone char can be used to filter water and to whiten sugar at a refinery.
Bones can be used as fish hooks and all kinds of needles (knitting, sewing, awls for leatherwork).
They can be used to make buttons, or sent to a furnace to make calcium-phosphate ash which can be used to make bone china.

They can of course be used to make woodwind instruments like bone flutes, or even bone china instruments for the wealthy.

The bone meal though, that one is still probably your best bet for using large piles of bone for one purpose.  As fertilizer.
those are pretty much 'crafts' or at least small/tiny items.
Also: bonemeal: another reason to build querns. (i think milling it is weird somehow). It's also used in bonechina ceramic.
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Greendogo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3159 on: December 05, 2011, 01:55:08 pm »

I think it would be interesting if Dwarves had hobbies that they did in their free time like knitting and the long sought after music playing.  Things that could be productive, as well as fun.  A dwarf could knit himself a stocking cap or something, but at least that would give us a use for bone knitting needles.  A bone folder could also be used by a dwarven author/bookmaker who wrote stories of his fortress when he wasn't busy doing his actual job.
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Justiceface

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3160 on: December 05, 2011, 04:14:12 pm »

Quote
...and what was hopefully the main cause of all those long-standing cave-in-on-embarks.

I'd be interested to know what caused those.  I've had a few, and they always startle me: I unpause the game and suddenly I see "A section of the cave has collapsed!" I blink at the computer and say, "I haven't even dug anything out yet!" :)
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Hummingbird

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3161 on: December 05, 2011, 09:04:10 pm »

Using the bones in villages as a major source of fertilizer for their crops (bone meal) would make a great way to decrease the number of idle bones filling up the town's stores.

I think bone meal already exists in the game, but as food for goblin civilizations.
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monk12

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3162 on: December 05, 2011, 09:07:53 pm »

Using the bones in villages as a major source of fertilizer for their crops (bone meal) would make a great way to decrease the number of idle bones filling up the town's stores.

I think bone meal already exists in the game, but as food for goblin civilizations.

I don't know as goblins use it, but the wiki confirms its existence in game- currently it shows up in night creature lairs a lot.

hoveringdog

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3163 on: December 05, 2011, 10:48:49 pm »

Kind of an aside, but has anyone found evidence that bone meal was used as fertilizer in the middle ages? I would imagine it wasn't used before the eighteenth century at the earliest, when plant nutrition first began to be understood, but I'm far from sure about that. Ink was made from bone char, though, so there's that if book production ever becomes a reality. In any case, discarded animal bones are pretty ubiquitous in medieval archeological sites, which seems to indicate that supply far exceeded demand in reality too..
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monk12

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3164 on: December 05, 2011, 11:04:13 pm »

Kind of an aside, but has anyone found evidence that bone meal was used as fertilizer in the middle ages? I would imagine it wasn't used before the eighteenth century at the earliest, when plant nutrition first began to be understood, but I'm far from sure about that. Ink was made from bone char, though, so there's that if book production ever becomes a reality. In any case, discarded animal bones are pretty ubiquitous in medieval archeological sites, which seems to indicate that supply far exceeded demand in reality too..

According to Wikipedia, nobody tried it in England until the mid-1800's, and even then it was unsuccessful until later. That said, it's a pretty lean wiki article and is mostly focused on fertilizer as an industry, so it's hardly definitive.
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