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[Armok]

I didn't think anyone would interpret it literally. What I meant is there are plenty of things with no redeeming features (providing a challenge/common enemy doesn't count, demons in fantasy do that to.), such as for example cancer or certain kinds of psychopaths, but the closest you'll come to perfect goodness are certain altruistic humans but all such admit to being flawed.

[Willfor]

I didn't think anyone would interpret it literally. What I meant is there are plenty of things with no redeeming features (providing a challenge/common enemy doesn't count, demons in fantasy do that to.), such as for example cancer or certain kinds of psychopaths, but the closest you'll come to perfect goodness are certain altruistic humans but all such admit to being flawed.

That doesn't invalidate the fact that things with flaws can exist in a state where their natural tendency isn't to automatically rip other living people's faces off. All I would ask is that things with the [Good] descriptor be moved into that category, and away from the "will rip your face off at a moments notice regardless of who you are" category.

[Neonivek]

as for example cancer or certain kinds of psychopaths

Well in Cancer's situation, which is a thing and thus can't be evil anyway, its redeeming factor could be that it isn't trying to hurt you it is just following its own programming that got messed up.

In a Psychopath's situation they are people who are driven crazy who likely can't tell what is really going on or cannot understand the nature of the situation (though there are psychopaths whos insanity did lead them to commit a crime but who who have no psychosis that really prevented it.), their redeeming factor is usually that even though they are insane they are attempting to do good, however limited it may be, within the scope of their madness.
-Also Psychopaths arn't nessisarily murderers I believe.

closest you'll come to perfect goodness are certain altruistic humans but all such admit to being flawed

There is an old saying: "Even a Thief will go out of his way to help a friend"

So if you looking for pure evil people you are not going to find them either. Sociopaths, according to some psychologists, are people who took in the wrong hints and messages society sends out at a regular basis and simply follows them to their logical, and often destructive, conclusion.

Look the only point that in Dwarf Fortress Evil seems to be a force. Curses exist, cursed lands exist (as well as their mechanics to become cursed), and even creatures who are evil exist. Yet good is fanciful and just as destructive and dangerous to all life. There is no benevolence only malevolence.

which is what is essentially the question

Where is the Benevolence?

[Gamerlord]

I've gotta ask, will there ever be ways to just... do stuff? Like, if I wanted to do a dance on the corpse of a hydra I could go into a menu and select 'dance' from a list while standing on the hydra? Maybe do stuff like yelling at enemies during battle, or taunts?

[Neonivek]

I've gotta ask, will there ever be ways to just... do stuff? Like, if I wanted to do a dance on the corpse of a hydra I could go into a menu and select 'dance' from a list while standing on the hydra? Maybe do stuff like yelling at enemies during battle, or taunts?

Hillariously it sounds like you want an Emote system. The ability to just click a button and type "Dance on the Hydras head while signing I'm a little Teapot"

[Gamerlord]

I've gotta ask, will there ever be ways to just... do stuff? Like, if I wanted to do a dance on the corpse of a hydra I could go into a menu and select 'dance' from a list while standing on the hydra? Maybe do stuff like yelling at enemies during battle, or taunts?

Hillariously it sounds like you want an Emote system. The ability to just click a button and type "Dance on the Hydras head while signing I'm a little Teapot"

Thats kind of what I want. Just a little more interactivity with the world.

[Greiger]

Where is the Benevolence?

My vote is the adventurer.  The heroic adventurer not the destructive ones.  They assist the people by destroying powerful evil creatures that have been terrorizing the villages for no materiel gain.  They do gain the respect of the people and the ability to bring more companions with them, but for what purpose?  To continue what they have already been doing, helping the people.

Sure they can often collect loot from such locations, but they can just sneak in, grab everything not nailed down and leave without killing the monster.  Yet, the adventurer often kills the monster, despite little materiel reason to do so.

[Neonivek]

Where is the Benevolence?

My vote is the adventurer. 

If that is truely the explanation that also makes perfect sense. It is a world where you truely are the only ray of sunshine. You are the beacon of hope, the pervayer of justice, and the bringer of truth in a world of despair, chaos, and darkness. That is what makes you precious and special.

Though still... given that this is a generated system... I'd still would like to know.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

i don't think toady has been building up to that type of fantasy, though. i think he envisions df's default world as much more generic, but to be tweaked by the players to generate specific scenarios
_____
arguably, the bittersweet fey moods are benevolent, it's a supposedly positive magical event. i don't think there is anything like it in adventure mode, though.

[Neonivek]

i don't think toady has been building up to that type of fantasy, though. i think he envisions df's default world as much more generic, but to be tweaked by the players to generate specific scenarios
_____
arguably, the bittersweet fey moods are benevolent, it's a supposedly positive magical event. i don't think there is anything like it in adventure mode, though.

It is more that the universe is supposed to be unique yet Done before. Logical yet illogical.

A cheap fantasy world generator so to speak.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

or prefereably, a sophisticated generator of cheap fantasy worlds. i think a generic default setting fits better with that concept, and those grittier, apocalyptic scenarios should be defined on worldgen with sliding scales of good vs. evil\magic vs mundane

[EmeraldWind]

There was a general whose wife was the leader of a civilization. In the year 8, she was kidnapped and turned into a bleak horror. Over the decades, the general became obsessed with his own mortality and sought out the necromancer's tower, becoming a lowly apprentice in return for eternal life. Years later, he wrote a 30 page essay about his horror wife called Victory By The Creature. He also took an apprentice of his own, a former queen of the dwarves, and wrote a touching and concise 282 page biography about her. You end up with quite a few formerly important apprentices, since it only concerns itself with the secret worries of important people at this time -- a technical hurdle which needs to be worked through now or later.

When you say 282 page, do you mean literally or informatively?
To clarify: Is it actually written out or does the game just tell you that is how long it is?

[Nivim]

I've gotta ask, will there ever be ways to just... do stuff? Like, if I wanted to do a dance on the corpse of a hydra I could go into a menu and select 'dance' from a list while standing on the hydra? Maybe do stuff like yelling at enemies during battle, or taunts?

Hillariously it sounds like you want an Emote system. The ability to just click a button and type "Dance on the Hydras head while signing I'm a little Teapot"

Thats kind of what I want. Just a little more interactivity with the world.

But that's just it, if Toady isn't coding specific effects for such actions, you aren't interacting with the world; just displaying some text, and maybe using up one of your turns. Each particular action you can think of needs to be both tied into all the other systems and work as a building platform for future development, or it isn't worth dealing with by itself. Taunting a goblin? Should include analysis of personality traits, social skills, the intended meaning and the recieved meaning of the taunt, relative strengths, and relative fames to determine the appropriate shift in AI behavior, if any. It alone would take a few weeks, but if done with a/the diplomacy rewrite, it could come with only a few hours of extra effort.
 If you're really interested in displaying text, isn't the interaction system capable of doing so?

[Mechanoid]

To clarify: Is it actually written out or does the game just tell you that is how long it is?

Seconding the request for an answer to this. We must know...

Can we read the contents of a book whatever the size of it? Does it function like an in-game legends mode viewer that's highly specific to a single creature?

... If the weight of a book is based on the number of pages it has, can a book contain so many pages, that the player can not lift it without being heavilly slowed?
If reading speed is influenced by your movement speed, and you're moving at a crawl, and it takes a long time to read just one page... "Oh i'll just read this b-" *You have starved to death*

[thvaz]

Now that we have books, secrets can still be find on slabs? There other places people can learn secrets?

Do apprentices learn the secrets directly from their masters or by using books/slabs found on their towers?

Only necromancers can have apprentices or the system will also allow other historical figures to have apprentices?