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[Neonivek]

Well ok to be fair another aspect is how little dwarves actually need to eat.

Could you imagine a single turnip, a single strawberry, or even a cookie filling you for an entire meal?

Saving myself from the law of next page switch.

Anyhow also cooking and brewing is basically a multiplication machine. Squeezing a few bits of food into a lot of meals.

[Johuotar]

Farming fixes

If dwarfs eat more often, then time needs to be slowed down, which would be frustrating to megaproject builders.
I would like it if we'd be needing big stocks of seed, in order to sow larger fields.

Well there's the question if it should even be possible to build 200z level high megadwarf out of gold at all.
As DF is mode more realistic this kind of things get more and more difficult. I mean being able to build huge golden dwarves has never been planned part of the game and it might not be possible in the future.

Its a big problem, like the fact that 0.23 was more challenging, the game has seen drastic changes and is going to change a lot in the future. Those who are used to the rules from old versions can be disappointed.

[counting]

But either increase the food consumptions, or reduce the farming output, all will lead to the increase number of farmer's number percentage of the population. And how much more was it enough, before Dwarf Fortress becomes Farmer Fortress?

There must be a better way to specialize or differentiate the fortress growth. (Not just by limiting the populations of fortress experts number). One I can think of it to increase the degradation rate of other goods when used, so the industries have to keep producing replacement commodities on the market. If you build every industries and only produce only a few of each, then these commodities will run out quickly. Or you can specialize in some productions and exchanging them with other fortresses. So each fortress can have their special products of their own. (Also a fortress can be located in area that are not perfect in every resources level, only need to be good at a few)

[zwei]

I like to pretend that each farm plot represents village that supplies fort and dwarf with farmer labor is its overseer.

So each dwarf fortress has its own miniaturized farming villages underground, and magical shrinking/expending machines to turn miniaturized crops back to normal size. That makes a lot of sense right now.

And it is wrong that each dwarf fortress is isolated during siege. In fact if they want, they can all shrinking into their miniaturized villager land when things get FUN.

More of plot being "stockpile" where they bring products of full size but off-site villages mixed with office that issues orders and displays progress.

Abstraction and stuff...

[Areyar]

edit: @counting:

It already feels like half the immigrants I get in my fortress/forge is a brown-shirt. :p

Oh well, good food for the war-machine.

[Ghills]

Well ok to be fair another aspect is how little dwarves actually need to eat.


Could you imagine a single turnip, a single strawberry, or even a cookie filling you for an entire meal?

The amount of food is just abstracted. We don't see every single strawberry, just the number of strawberry-meals that come from the bush.

In RL, strawberries come on a bush, and there's a lot strawberries on a bush after the berries are ripe.  A pound or two, especially if you harvest the bush as thoroughly as dwarves do. 1 pound of strawberries is really a lot of strawberries, and it's pretty reasonable that it would be considered a meal for one or two dwarfs.

[Areyar]

a patch of strawberry bushes, I'd say, yields 5 (baskets) of strawberries.

[Dsarker]

We also don't have crops reproducing, as fruit trees would.

[counting]

This has to fulfill, or people will starve.

avg_production_amount * producers >= avg_consume_amount * consumers

So this is a general rule

avg_production_to_consume_ratio >= consumer_producer_ratio

That is if 20% (1/5) of people are farmers, they must produce 5 times of crops than they can eat themselves, or people starve. The amount of extra yield will determine how many specialists can exist. Hence if a dwarf eat 1 unit of food per month and it can produce 10 units in the mean time, means 90% of extra dwarfs can exist in a fortress. You can calculate using this as how effective barriers are for food.   

[PTTG??]

Woah, when did this happen?

...his computer desk, a framed picture of his part Manx, part Maine Coon cat, Scamps...

Well, that explains a lot. Maine Coons = giant, insane. Manx = insane, insane.

[Dsarker]

It appears to happen in a couple of days, according to the link.

[Niccolo]

But either increase the food consumptions, or reduce the farming output, all will lead to the increase number of farmer's number percentage of the population. And how much more was it enough, before Dwarf Fortress becomes Farmer Fortress?

There must be a better way to specialize or differentiate the fortress growth. (Not just by limiting the populations of fortress experts number). One I can think of it to increase the degradation rate of other goods when used, so the industries have to keep producing replacement commodities on the market. If you build every industries and only produce only a few of each, then these commodities will run out quickly. Or you can specialize in some productions and exchanging them with other fortresses. So each fortress can have their special products of their own. (Also a fortress can be located in area that are not perfect in every resources level, only need to be good at a few)

If one wishes to, say, use the whole food idea to affect the fortress growth;

What about taking soil fertility into account? A given patch of land might produce bundles of crops for a full year, but eveything's leached out and nothing will grow there for a time. It will make having to pay attention to crops - and getting a decent rotation of fallow and functional plots going - all the more important without actually reducing the farming output or increasing the consumption rate.

[werechicken]

I think the farming stuff does make sense, it's ridiculously easy to set up a farming complex that will keep even the largest fortress fed.

As for the mega-projects: surely making it harder will make it that much more impressive.

[Neonivek]

The amount of food is just abstracted

Well a single Strawberry plant would probably BARELY feed a single person for one meal in one day.

So even abstracted... (which remember if you go to the fort with an adventurer, those "abstract foods" are real food)

Though I think the issue is that DF can't handle bunches well at all... Remember how Toady couldn't combine stacks of arrows?

[irmo]

Presumably that is because making the fortress not be self sufficient without the ability to survive from Caravans would be counter productive.

Losing is fun, no?

After the Big Rock Candy Wasteland that was 40d, I wouldn't mind a few releases where the resource mechanics prevented ever achieving self-sufficiency, and all fortresses were doomed.

Because all fortresses are doomed. Either the fortress falls, or you eventually get bored with it and stop playing. It's not necessarily bad for the mechanics to ensure that all fortresses fall before they get boring.