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[Fedor]

Toady One,

I've enjoyed the heck out of your game for about four years now.  While I haven't contributed nearly as much as your superlative work deserves, it amounts to more than my spending on any two other games in that time period.

But I haven't really had fun since 40d.

You just can't get to where you've been wanting to go for a long time now without fundamental changes to the way the game interacts with the player.  A 25x80, extended ASCII interface and keyboard-driven menus haven't really cut the mustard since 2D days.  Every Cool Thing you do makes the problem worse, and all your much-appreciated interface improvements - such as the one yesterday! - haven't matched the pace of your deepening and complexifying of the gameplay.

The other problem that's just killing me is processing inefficiency.  Again, you've worked hard and effectively on this.  Again, the improvements (and my much newer computer, built around a i750 chip) haven't matched the advances in gameplay.  Every fort, every single fort I really care about and invest time and emotion in has died to lag.  This has happened to me over and over and over again, and again the only solution for someone who plays the ways I do is to either stay with versions years out of date, or find another game.

This isn't good-bye.  I'm sticking around.  But until things change, and change fundamentally, Dwarf Fortress will never be one of my favorite games again.


-Fedor Andreev

[Greiger]

If it helps anything you aren't the only one.  Doesn't bother me personally so much, but I know I'm a wierdo in that regard.  I do see where you are coming from.  That was also the most well written and respectful post on that subject I know of. (no disrespect to others I may have missed)

Toady does appear to know of the interface issues, but if I recall he doesn't really want to put a whole bunch of work into it with so many features that would make it meed to be changed at this point.   But maybe it is time soon for another small optimization of the interface.  Perhaps not a full overhaul, though since there are so many things to be added that would break interface improvements.  But maybe half a week or so of little things.

The multi z-level designations are a pretty major step in that direction already.  It was one of those little things that didn't seem to make sense why it didn't work.  Burrow designations after all always worked over multi z-levels.  It seemed off that regular designations didn't.

P.S. Slightly off topic but... *August 2007 brofist*

[Untelligent]

What's wrong with a keyboard interface? Wouldn't a mouse-based one be even worse?

Well, maybe the designations could benefit from mouse stuff, but most of the menus are probably much better off with the hotkeys.


Also you can make it bigger than 25x80 if you want.


Personally, the only problem I have with the current interface was the default "cancel" key switching from space to esc, which was kind of a boneheaded move (and the only reason I can think of for it happening was allowing the squad menu to be open without pausing the game, which itself doesn't make much sense as I can't think of any other menu I'd less want to have open while unpaused). I can't for the life of me figure out how to bind cancel back to space without making text-entry irritating (closest I can get is making shift-space make a space, but even that's annoying and it cancels if I accidentally don't use shift).

[eux0r]

i dont know about the windows version, but the linux version certainly is as big as the window i use and, although ive never had a fort going for a really long time(only single-digit ingameyears), i never had performance issues(might also only be the case for linux, cant tell for windows). in addition, the hotkeys are a very nice thing and i dont see why anybody would want to use a mouse, but im also using a completely keyboard controlled tiling wm, so i might be the exception here.
the only thing i can say about the interface is, that it feels a little off, because all sections and sub-menus look different. a unified menu-template might be especially useful for new players, so once they understand one menu they dont have to think all over for the next one.

back on the thread-topic: does anyone know whether the last pictures of towns toady posted are actually what towns will look like this release, or did something change there since those were posted? i cant seem to remember anything being said relating this, but my memory is terrible...

[Untelligent]

I don't think he's said anything about any significant changes to the towns, but there certainly could be by the time of release. Wait n' see.

[Dwarfu]

This leaves more dead criminals and heroes down below, and now their items are available in adv mode.

Will world gen "heros" ever assume the role of treasure hunter and go after these items, or will they just be looking for kills?

I know there is the dev section for adventurer treasure hunters, but nothing about world gen people doing this other than villains seeking artifacts.  Even a peasant might brave the sewers in hopes of finding a silver ladle to pawn to feed his family...

Another scenario is the 'recruit' status of some of these heros without equipment...surely they'd see it as an opportunity to get equipment much like the players do.

[MaskedMiner]

I also wonder whats wrong with keyboard based interface o-o

Also, I had opposite problem with 40d: I tried it out since I wanted to play adventure mode with cities, but I couldn't get used to space instead of esc.

[thvaz]

People just have to accept sometimes we get fed up with a game and have to move on.

[zwei]

I also wonder whats wrong with keyboard based interface o-o

Nothing, really. It is very efficient for giving commands and quickly navigating static menu system.

But what is terribly sucks for is targeting (placing constructions and drawing them, querying buildings, viewing units, etc...) where you are better off with tool that was designed for this task.

Also, selecting something from list is usually better done with mouse unless you have more advanced aids (similar to what is in manager screen or in bring to trade depot screen).

[MaskedMiner]

Hmm, I see o-o I admit it, lists are kinda troublesome especially after you have tons of dwarfs and they get very long... Still not bothered by it much though.

BTW, why do people prefer 40d? Just because you can embark on top of site of other races and adventure mode has more different kind of cities?

[thvaz]

BTW, why do people prefer 40d? Just because you can embark on top of site of other races and adventure mode has more different kind of cities?

Nostalgia.

[Areyar]

BTW, why do people prefer 40d? Just because you can embark on top of site of other races and adventure mode has more different kind of cities?

Nostalgia.

beastmaster

[Organum]

BTW, why do people prefer 40d? Just because you can embark on top of site of other races and adventure mode has more different kind of cities?

Nostalgia.

beastmaster

Lack of bugs, maybe.

[JimiD]

Hopefully the squad menu is only the start of things.

Imagine if the game continued when using the designation menu, the build menu, the k,v,q, and t menus.  It might not increase FPS, but much more in game time would pass for any hour sat playing.  I would also love to see the game continue when looking at the thoughts and descriptions of dwarves.  There is so much detail there, but any research means the game is paused.  And with a slow PC, and a low FPS, I try to minimise any menu use, so that at least something is happening.

[zwei]

Hopefully the squad menu is only the start of things.

Imagine if the game continued when using the designation menu, the build menu, the k,v,q, and t menus.  It might not increase FPS, but much more in game time would pass for any hour sat playing.  I would also love to see the game continue when looking at the thoughts and descriptions of dwarves.  There is so much detail there, but any research means the game is paused.  And with a slow PC, and a low FPS, I try to minimise any menu use, so that at least something is happening.

Indeed. You can often spend about hour designating larger construction (or mining operation) and then wait similar amount of time till it is finished.

While not improving fps, it would speed up gameplay considerably if game was running whole time