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[nil]

nope. tolkien invented the modern conception of goblins, folklore never described them like you're picturing them, and before tolkien turned them into a weak version of his orcs they were pretty powerful evil spirits or fairies... if toady wants them to be closer to the original goblins they should probably be  a more fearsome foe with magical properties, and should have some exotic means of breeding... see all those babies they kidnap? they're the goblins of tomorrow

Plus even Tolkien's orcs (orc and goblin are synonyms dammit *goes off to tilt at a windmill*) were corrupted elves, and were at least long-lived; as far as I know there's no evidence for them being mortal beyond how cheap everyone considers their lives to be.  Personally I love the idea of a creature that is technically immortal but that lives a sufficiently violent life that few if any of them will actually live much longer than a human being.

I'll agree that there is a disjunct in them being less zerglike than the elves, but the problem there is with the elves, not the goblins.

[Kyselina]

I wonder, what will happen if a creature get's infected by more werebeasts? Is it even possible?

[Askot Bokbondeler]

that wondering was done already, though

I wonder what will happen if a wereskunk gets bitten by a werewolf. Will they turn into full werewolfs, will they become wereskunkwolfs, will they be immune to the werewolf curse or will they periodically transform between their human, werewolf and wereskunk forms?

I think DF would treat it like other games that have multiple types of lycanthropes: Once a humanoid is cursed with one form of lycanthropy, then they'd be immune to all other were-curses. I would imagine that limitation fits with mythology, too.

[Patchouli]

Currently, genders are separated via castes with the appropriate gender tokens added to each caste. With the guards changing from male to female and back, does that mean the guard's caste is  actively having its gender token changed, or is the guard picking any caste with a [FEMALE] token for a female transformation, and any caste with a [MALE] token for male transformation?

[Neonivek]

That's just... so backwards! By everything written in fiction and mythology, the goblins should be the ones who breed like crazy and have horrendous, constant infighting. And the elves (again, according to fiction and mythology) should be mostly civilized, with infighting being almost unheard of, and should breed very slowly in comparison.

with what another person saying that it isn't quite folklore your forgetting several aspects.

1) The Infighting while fierce wasn't a remake of Fightclub where Fight was replaced by Murder.
2) Even when it was a constant blood bath, usually there stepped up a leader who could quell such a force.

Heck one movie I saw the goblins were generally ignored as an organised army because they never really had the momentum to ever continue an attack. However strong leaders who could rally the goblins were nearly unstoppable since the Goblin armies were actually better.

The problem is that Goblin societies arn't so much infighting as constantly unceasing murder pits... and even a Leader doesn't even make a dent in this (In fact when the leader isn't constantly being killed off themselves... they are... constantly killing people off themselves)

The Goblins are the most ineffectual force EVER! and Toady just keeps heaping on undeserved advantages because they need to be a threat. I am sure this will be fixed up later though, and some of their better advantages were unwritten because the current coding wouldn't allow it... such as the lack of troll armies.

[King_of_the_weasels]

nope. tolkien invented the modern conception of goblins, folklore never described them like you're picturing them, and before tolkien turned them into a weak version of his orcs they were pretty powerful evil spirits or fairies... if toady wants them to be closer to the original goblins they should probably be  a more fearsome foe with magical properties, and should have some exotic means of breeding... see all those babies they kidnap? they're the goblins of tomorrow

Plus even Tolkien's orcs (orc and goblin are synonyms dammit *goes off to tilt at a windmill*) were corrupted elves, and were at least long-lived; as far as I know there's no evidence for them being mortal beyond how cheap everyone considers their lives to be.  Personally I love the idea of a creature that is technically immortal but that lives a sufficiently violent life that few if any of them will actually live much longer than a human being.

I'll agree that there is a disjunct in them being less zerglike than the elves, but the problem there is with the elves, not the goblins.

I was partly thinking that instead of goblins being civilized like they are now, at some point they'd be lowered to kobold status and instead randomly generated civilization wide curses would give us our new "goblins".

[Neonivek]

because Toady runs a realistic setting...

Unless the Goblins were so numberous that they are essentially a moving tide of creatures, they cannot stand a chance.

Heck the only reason Elves win battles is because they attack with unreasonably HUGE numbers constantly.

[thvaz]

I don't think anyone apart from the Adams brothers agree with the decision of goblins being immortal or do not needing food to survive. But it is a work in progress, so let's wait.

Their "stock" fantasy world however is seriously lacking the niche orcs fill in other fantasy works though - savage, brutish, mortal, breed-like-rabbits warlike creatures. The closer we have filling this niche are elves, but they are immortal.

[Dae]

Their "stock" fantasy world however is seriously lacking the niche orcs fill in other fantasy works though - savage, brutish, mortal, breed-like-rabbits warlike creatures. The closer we have filling this niche are elves, but they are immortal.

That's fine with me.  Novelty is a good thing.

[Neonivek]

I was fine with immortality... I don't see immortality as particularly mind bending or that special in a fantasy setting.

No eating though... for goblins. Well.

It is just odd to me in the setting they created. I understand why Toady did so.

Though I am surprised he didn't find any alternatives to not herding and not growing.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

i could picture goblins herding pigs, feeding them with the remains of their dead and war prisoners they wouldn't eat themselves, and pasturing them on the caverns

[LoSboccacc]

on the material weakness:

how much random is material weakness? right now the fortress and the adventurer are severely limited on what materials are usable for smelting weapons or available to purchase at shop.

even if I guess we can still kill wererandoms weak to pewter smiting them with a mug

[DG]

What's so bad about goblins not having to eat? It doesn't necessarily mean they won't eat. They have mouths and stomachs etc so I imagine they'll eat when and if they wish. I can imagine them eating captured enemies just for the horror of it when they are available but not bothering themselves with the mundanities of farming simply to subsist like mortal creatures. They can then be warlike and terrible especially because they can direct themselves solely to that without having to worry about supply lines and economies or anything else to keep their society going. Not eating is a fundamental difference that can underpin what a goblin is and why they do what they do. We shouldn't get too hung up on precedents.

[Asmageddon]

Because if they can stay alive without need to eat, it either ruins law of conservation of energy or implies that they are able to get enormous amounts of energy from thin air using ultra advanced technology that even we don't yet have(nuclear fission of hydrogen from water mist, anyone?)

[jellsprout]

Because conservation of energy is so well simulated in DF, right?