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[de5me7]

contagious ware-beasts in fortress mode. Toady does indeed understand his player base. Magma flooding rooms will now be a necessity for any fort wanting to avoid an epidemic.

[LoSboccacc]

contagious ware-beasts in fortress mode. Toady does indeed understand his player base. Magma flooding rooms will now be a necessity for any fort wanting to avoid an epidemic.

you are underestimating the player base. if one could manage to have every one to transform at the same time, no combat nor loyalty cascade. probably. hopefully. maybe. one can only hope..

There should be some way to weaponize them, right?

[hermes]

in Fortress mode how hostile shall non-infected Dwarves behave towards their lycanthropic brethren?

When they are going nuts, I expect it will end with mutual violence.  When they aren't nuts, the dwarves won't know or care at first.  After the first transformation, if the dwarf somehow goes through it without being in a fight, I imagine that will continue.  If the dwarf attacks somebody as a werebeast and then changes back, I think the fight will continue due to the enemy status that comes into play, hopefully avoiding any civil war bug issues.

Thank you for the answers again, Toady.  Following on from this, I wonder if it might be possible to segregate the Dwerewolves with burrows or locked rooms... is there any way to tell the phases of the moon in Fortress Mode?

[Footkerchief]

Will the player be able to form their own custom organisations in play? Perhaps not in the immediate future but eventually. Or would something like an inquisition have to be defined in entity raws? How would one dynamically assign responsibilities and possibly law exemptions to them? Would it be possible for such an organisation to attempt to seize the power for themselves?

This is a question-suggestion, and it's on the dev page.  Please at least check the dev page before greening a question:

Fortress Subgroups
    * Skilled dwarves should form guilds
    * Dwarves with similar religious views should formally associate at times
    * Guilds and sects should be able to make demands for meeting halls, temples, specific furniture or the resources and time to prepare their own furniture, statues of specific gods throughout the fortress, etc.
    * Dwarves that have grudges or personal altercations should be able to drag their groups into it
    * Removal of guild dwarves from their professions should result in trouble between the guild and the currently appointed manager/leader
    * Various benefits to having a well developed guild or sect are under consideration

Also addressed in an answer post:

Will i be able to define my guilds? Because i'd honestly like those to match up with my generalized dwarf labor plans, and not have infighting among, for instance, Crafters because they share different guilds and happened to get into a brawl.

One of the ideas was to give dwarves some freedom to associate as they like and to make more use of their friends, families and grudges so there is some push and pull.  Turning off infighting would be a possibility, although hopefully it won't need to come to that.  I'm not quite sure what your situation is (things like lots of miner-craftsdwarf dwarves?  or just different craft combinations?), but it'll be good to go into some specific examples and see what sorts of situations will arise.  We're sure the guild/religion/etc subgroup mechanism will add a lot to the game, but we haven't charted the exact path yet, and we'll be proceeding cautiously when we get there.  The idea certainly isn't to add a strictly annoying burden (like a new shell mandate), but to provide emerging challenges, more atmosphere and more things to do.

Also here:

Toady, is it possible we might see insurance or mutual aid societies in the future, where dwarfs can get together and help each other pay for expensive things (like, say better off family members allowing their poorer relatives to use their accounts or a group of farmers pooling their money to help pay the medical costs of an injured farmer)

The first step for that kind of thing would be having more subgroups in the fortress, which is definitely going to happen.  It should make the game more interesting.  After that, it'll really depend on how the subgroups work.  The largest groups like civilizations don't even do projects outside of world gen, and even then they don't involve any kind of resource pooling.  As that stuff is handled, whatever subgroups that go in might see some automatic benefits, but it'll depend on how it works.

So does this mean that more drastic complete metamorphosis such as Caterpillar->Chrysalis->Butterfly could be in (or just easier to do later)? Wounds wouldn't really matter since the larva stage is pretty much completely melted down and formed into the adult stage in the pupal stage. Of course this raises the issue of them leaving behind the pupal 'case' upon emerging.

Easier to do later, yes.  It's not in right now -- triggering a body change as part of a normal creature life cycle (as opposed to a curse) would be substantial extra work, and the notion of a totally inert, sessile creature (the chrysalis) would probably need lots of special handling.

On that note, are there any plans in the future for creatures to shed their skin/carapace and leave it behind as an object? Some depictions of were-critters have them tear off their skin when they transform and it would be interesting to collect dragon skin/scales without having to kill a dragon.

As can be assumed to apply to all features that Toady and ThreeToe haven't mentioned:

I'm for it of course, but I have no timeline.

can we start talking to gods at last?

See above; also, this has similar considerations:

Will adventures be able to learn these new "secrets"?

It comes down to adding an interface to it, pretty much, and supporting any special interactions that might take some care when coming from the player.  Ideally if you can turn into some sort of night creature, you'd get all of its powers and get to keep playing, but the use of interactions is exactly the problem with allowing the player to do that.  We'll see what the breadth of interactions ends up being.  It could end up being pretty straightforward to do.

[Skid]

If we get a lunar phase based syndrome that gives one of our dwarves evil superpowers, couldn't we just set them on military duty somewhere safely outside the fortress for the times starting immediately before their transformation and ending right after? 

"This area patrolled 24/7 by werebadgers during the waxing moon.  Access restricted."

[Quatch]

Quote from: Heph
    How will the monument will be placed? Will there be stuff like valleys filled with Monuments or fields with grave-mounts respective whatever exists.
    Also will there be political stuff around the "grave-sites" like starting a war with someone because they "disturbed the dead" from the builders pov.

There are monument sites, then it puts monuments in them, occasionally branching out to a new site.  The overall boundaries of the site grows the more monuments it gets.  There isn't any political stuff yet, but it's certainly reasonable.

By "boundaries of the site grow.." does this imply that sites are now resize/shapeable? Is this possible in fortress mode?

[Neonivek]

oh, if only we had a suggestion forum...

Toady is getting close to the Leno zone with the suggestion forum. No wait that is the wrong reference... who was that guy who actually tried to answer all his fanmail and actually finally thrown it all out? Well that guy! (Lenon? Ringo? Targo?)

Anyhow Thanks Toady for answering our questions!

I REALLY gotta start my Secret suggestion soon...

I am getting depressingly late on all my projects...

[magmaholic]

it would be nice,if we could add tags with syndromes.
then there would be a [FLIER] syndrome named MOONWALK
during full moon.
heh.

will we be able to add tags with syndromes?

[Demonic Gophers]

Are the were-creature transformations and rampaging directly linked, or separate effects that are both applied in the generated curses?  Could we add, for example, a contagious madness curse with no transformation, or a regional curse that would temporarily transform everyone into stray cats on nights of the full moon without making them hostile?

If a creature is killed while transformed, will its corpse be based on its transformed state or its original body?

Can gaining a secret lead to megabeast or semimegabeast behavior?  In an old version of one of my mods, I had a semimegabeast based on one of my civilized creatures, with a few changes to make them more dangerous and no max age.  They were supposed to represent individuals who had discovered arcane means of enhancing their physical abilities, and then gone mad from a combination of side effects of the process and their feelings of superiority over unenhanced beings.  I love the possibility of adding a new version of them, that would actually be this, perhaps with a possibility of retaining their sanity and entity affiliations.

[EmeraldWind]

For instance, I misplaced a few lines of code and all of the castle guards ended up switching genders and getting entirely new appearances ten times per step.

Wow. I laughed, a lot.

[Thundercraft]

I wonder what will happen if a wereskunk gets bitten by a werewolf. Will they turn into full werewolfs, will they become wereskunkwolfs, will they be immune to the werewolf curse or will they periodically transform between their human, werewolf and wereskunk forms?

I think DF would treat it like other games that have multiple types of lycanthropes: Once a humanoid is cursed with one form of lycanthropy, then they'd be immune to all other were-curses. I would imagine that limitation fits with mythology, too.

But the population obviously does rise to some degree; what's the limiting factor?... [snip]

More infighting?
Well currently it is because of the magical population limit

Maybe there's a point where they just can't stand each other's shit and infighting turns into all out civil war.  Maybe at a certain threshold where they break off and form new cities.
Maybe their constant war with Dorfs and Humans keeps the population down.

Or, maybe the current system of Goblins being immortal and having no food requirement is a desperate workaround for a badly flawed system and some of us are reaching to make it sound plausible in-game?

Do you realize that, even after all the bug fixing, Kobolds still die off during world-gen due to starvation? The whole food requirements (and especially grazing values) are in desperate need of rebalancing. It's not game-breakingly bad, but it is pretty bad.

Maybe their breeding coefficient is so low that anything basically keeps them in check.

Actually Elves have a lower breeding coefficiant and breed like crazy relative to the goblins.

Their infighting is so horrible that usually by the time they have forces capable of doing anything... even the Dwarves have larger (and much stronger) armies.

That's just... so backwards! By everything written in fiction and mythology, the goblins should be the ones who breed like crazy and have horrendous, constant infighting. And the elves (again, according to fiction and mythology) should be mostly civilized, with infighting being almost unheard of, and should breed very slowly in comparison.

I know goblins will always be immortal though (and I will always put [MAXAGE:120] on their raws).

I still have hope that goblins won't always be immortal and they will eventually be given some sort of food requirement. Also, I think I will start adding [MAXAGE:120] to the goblins in my games as well.

[Dante]

Is anybody else having trouble getting to the devlog recently? I'm accessing bay12forums just fine, but bay12games only really intermittently.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But the population obviously does rise to some degree; what's the limiting factor?... [snip]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

More infighting?
Well currently it is because of the magical population limit

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maybe there's a point where they just can't stand each other's shit and infighting turns into all out civil war.  Maybe at a certain threshold where they break off and form new cities.
Maybe their constant war with Dorfs and Humans keeps the population down.

Or, maybe the current system of Goblins being immortal and having no food requirement is a desperate workaround for a badly flawed system and some of us are reaching to make it sound plausible in-game?

Do you realize that, even after all the bug fixing, Kobolds still die off during world-gen due to starvation? The whole food requirements (and especially grazing values) are in desperate need of rebalancing. It's not game-breakingly bad, but it is pretty bad.

(...)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know goblins will always be immortal though (and I will always put [MAXAGE:120] on their raws).

I still have hope that goblins won't always be immortal and they will eventually be given some sort of food requirement. Also, I think I will start adding [MAXAGE:120] to the goblins in my games as well.

actually, toady has stated multiple times that goblins being immortal and not needing to eat is canon and will stay that way.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maybe their breeding coefficient is so low that anything basically keeps them in check.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Actually Elves have a lower breeding coefficiant and breed like crazy relative to the goblins.

Their infighting is so horrible that usually by the time they have forces capable of doing anything... even the Dwarves have larger (and much stronger) armies.

That's just... so backwards! By everything written in fiction and mythology, the goblins should be the ones who breed like crazy and have horrendous, constant infighting. And the elves (again, according to fiction and mythology) should be mostly civilized, with infighting being almost unheard of, and should breed very slowly in comparison.

uh... i think you're misunderstanding neonivek here. in that second part he's talking about the goblins...

 also:

... everything written in fiction and mythology ...

nope. tolkien invented the modern conception of goblins, folklore never described them like you're picturing them, and before tolkien turned them into a weak version of his orcs they were pretty powerful evil spirits or fairies... if toady wants them to be closer to the original goblins they should probably be  a more fearsome foe with magical properties, and should have some exotic means of breeding... see all those babies they kidnap? they're the goblins of tomorrow

of course if goblins became more powerful and mystical, we'd need an alternative cheap foe that we can slaughter by the hundreds

EDIT:

Is anybody else having trouble getting to the devlog recently? I'm accessing bay12forums just fine, but bay12games only really intermittently.

it's working alright for me

[G-Flex]

if toady wants them to be closer to the original goblins they should probably be  a more fearsome foe with magical properties, and should have some exotic means of breeding... see all those babies they kidnap? they're the goblins of tomorrow

The way I understand folklore of the middle ages (and before), if Toady wants to stick to the original flavor of any of those creatures (goblins, elves, etc.), he'll basically make it up as he goes along and not care too much about adhering to anything in particular. Whenever I read about fairies, elves, goblins, trolls, or anything else similar, it seems like people had a million different ideas of what they were and could do, depending on what part of what region of Europe you asked around in.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

well, yeah, but things were magic back then, there was some mystery inherent to those things, and there was a fear of those things, current goblins lack these atributes. i'm not saying that toady should go this way or that one, just that toady seems to be trying to merge both, or have them meet halfway, and to me it sometimes seems a bit weird