Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[LoSboccacc]

I wonder if we can get to see the system working.

are there any plan to put major economical events in the world available for browsing in the legend mode (or as engraving and such, for that matter)

[Lovechild]

Engraved on the wall is an image of a human and stone crafts. The human is surrounded by the stone crafts. The human is cringing. This artwork relates to the flooding of the market in The Submerged Confederacies by stone crafts in 127.

[James.Denholm]

Engraved on the wall is an image of a group of humans and a large group of humans. The large group of humans are lynching the humans. The artwork relates to the lynching of bankers across the world in the year 2008.

[LoSboccacc]

Engraved on the wall is an image of elves and roaches. The elves are in a fetal position. The roaches are feasting. The image relates to the slay of the human autumn food caravan to the Forest Retreat of Unlucky Lurking , slew by the Bridegroom Helluva Lothorns

[Neoskel]

Were-critters involve temporary transformations into different creatures, with at least a tail being added to the body in most cases and lost upon turning back. Does this mean that natural metamorphosis will be available? Things like tadpoles gaining legs and losing tails when they change into frogs or mantis nymphs gaining wings as they become adults.

[counting]

And without a proper "coins generating-removable" mechanism, the inflation or deflation will happen very quickly, and currency system won't be stable.

Sure you cannot have truly 'stable' systems (and even current sophisticated system does not work, as indicated by 2008), but back in old days of silver/gold standards it was 'stable enough' without such recycle mechanisms, as amount of currency was limited by amount of silver/gold, which were value by itself.

What's really happening the history of economic history is much more complex than that, and the truly - "good old" gold standard, are not (always) stable at all. Or else we may still using them today. It really has "gold/silver removal" mechanism. (ex. Mughal India is a reservoir for excess gold , because they used silver standard system, treated gold as a commodity).

And as you may think that gold or gold/silver or silver standard system will be stable enough because the "money supply" was fixed due to limit amount of mental exist. But the truth is even that's only half-way true. There are so many combinations of standards already tells us they are not a global standard at all (the true gold standard lived not very long from 18th to early 20th century and only accepted in Europe and their colonies)

On the other hand, the gold/silver mining itself never stops through out human history (till today). And the amount of gold/silver been dug out are not constantly at all, like the discovery and colonization of new world, causing the excessive of gold/silver production. The true reason why a gold/silver standard CAN be used in expansion economics system from 16th to 18th century. And the downfall of gold standard like system, is that although it may be stable as a global exchange system, but again the exactly same reason causing it to be unstable.

Since the growth or recession of productions in economic systems can NOT be reflected by the constant "gold standard". And when a recession do come, The government often seek extreme measure to keep their gold reserve stable, rather than keep the system stable (Every government is selfish like that). And great recession periods like in 1930's and in 1970's, causing it to be abandoned. (Because most reserves in many countries were dried out. After 1970s, gold became a commodity again)

The real "stable" factor in an economic system, often only rely on the "good" government debt and the confidence towards the deferred payment of them by the government. (The government CAN and ABLE to paid back interests and full in the future, whether it's true or not)

[counting]

And without a proper "coins generating-removable" mechanism, the inflation or deflation will happen very quickly, and currency system won't be stable.

Sure you cannot have truly 'stable' systems (and even current sophisticated system does not work, as indicated by 2008), but back in old days of silver/gold standards it was 'stable enough' without such recycle mechanisms, as amount of currency was limited by amount of silver/gold, which were value by itself.

Since the game has an absolute value tracking mechanism, I don't think we're going to need to worry too much about real-world style economic problems... Essentially, 'dwarfbucks' -are- the gold standard. And dedication to realism is awesome, but frankly, in order to get the system to function, Toady will almost certainly have to throw in some kind of meta-gameworld controls. Dragons/other invaders interested in wealth but unlikely to trade are certainly an excellent sort of control... But that could be too limited to rely on exclusively. It makes sense for controlling gold or mineral wealth, but what about the market being flooded with high-quality roasts? Or cabinets?

The excessive productions abilities if they can be sustained, should make such excessive commodities become commodity money. If they can be easily stored for later used and CAN be used with real values. In ancient time, the excessive production of barley(foods) or even cloth, makes them the first kinds of commodity money. Because they can be stored and used in real life. And they can be weighted or counted as the measure and used as exchange mediums for other goods. And the metal coins will stay as representation money in large quantity exchange.

Think that if NPCs are autonomous enough to be aware that high-quality roasts are abundant, they may not prefer unusable coins as payments. If a dwarf is a masonry, it went to a market and found there are few other commodities or none, a lot of roasts. And it has a choice to sell the stone carvings it produced exchange of limited amount of coins. Or dwarfs should be smart enough to know they may not have the chance to wait until they can buy the goods they needed. But it's easy to exchange a lot of roasts at hand, at least they will keep them from starving.

Overtime, those roasts may be stored as "savings". dwarfs get excessive amount of roasts at hands, but very few coins. they may try to use roasts to exchange with other dwarfs, who also have few coins, lots of roasts, and the other less rare goods (like clothing) other dwarfs produced rather than using the few coins.(underground local markets) The coins will be saved as mean to buy hard to produced goods (like fine armor sets) or large quantities. (High level caravan markets)

Although this may be hard to implement into dumb and odd dwarfs. But it's really happening in the early day of commodity money / metal coinages in economic history (Or at least we thought they were). Coins and commodity money co-existed in thousands of years. One used in local areas, one used in long-distance exchanges.

I would like to see if these kind of exchange systems can emerge from simulations. (Rather than hard-coded into game mechanics), although I doubt it will be too difficult to emulate so much dwarfs to let a market emerge by themselves.

[Areyar]

Engraved on the wall is an image of a group of humans and a large group of humans. The large group of humans are lynching the humans. The artwork relates to the lynching of bankers across the world in the year 2008.

hah!
Never happened, those bankers just doubled their bonusses

[bitterhorn]

Engraved on the wall is an image of a group of humans and a large group of humans. The large group of humans are lynching the humans. The artwork relates to the lynching of bankers across the world in the year 2008.

hah!
Never happened, those bankers just doubled their bonusses

Yeah, it was pretty much like

Code: [Select]

Urist McBanker has mandated the construction of certain goods.

Code: [Select]

( Mint Fairy-dust coins  0/12002509723575697236 )
This is one of those crafts we discussed in this thread that ends up having a negative value due to a b.s. mat type..

Code: [Select]

Urist McLowly cancels Mint Fairy-dust coins: job item lost or misplaced

Code: [Select]

A section of the economy has collapsed!
but then

Code: [Select]

Urist McSEC cancels Beat Criminal: Criminal Too Big to Fail

[Knight Otu]

In either Adventurer or Fortress mode, can necromancers re-animate dead on-the-go? What's the expected range of a necromancer's influence to reanimate the dead, is it simply unlimited range, line-of-sight limited, or trigger-based like that story with the figurine?

In fortress mode, will dwarves get thoughts about having to deal with undead creatures they knew in another lifetime?

We have devlogs of a necromancer animating a slain dog, necromancers in arena mode animating "buddy" parts, and a mummy animating her retainers and an adventurer. It certainly sounds that this will happen. Range and line of sight appear to depend on the secret provided to the necromancer/the animating force of the mummy, according to Toady's recent answers.

1. What about necromancers will allow them to raise things? Will they make some sort of magic object which simply raises any dead in the area? Will they use some sort of nebulous power thats inherent to them? Will they be somehow able to raise themselves if they die, such as a Lich.

1. They learn the secret, and then they can do it at will.  Magicky system type stuff like costs/conditions etc. will be put on over time.  All I have now is whether or not it needs a line of sight and a range.

Dwarves getting thoughts from undead friends has also been mentioned in the dev log

To avoid crossing various streams, animated corpses now keep track of the historical figure that was the source of the raised body, even though the historical figure's soul is detached from it (and available for ghostage). So relatives can still be properly horrified by a raised body without it actually being the person in question, and they might be haunted at the same time, oddly enough, provided that evil region animation continues to have nothing to do with the soul stuff.

[hermes]

Wait.. what?  Economics and currency standard discussions?  Didn't Threetoe just post about freaking-weredwarves not 12 hours ago??

Ah, some weretrolling spotted...

-- 7th economics essay in as many posts ---

Go easy there, counting, you've already participated in and started a separate thread on economics in the Suggestions forum, there is no need to bring that discussion here for the time being.  Try to stay with the general comment, chat, question regarding the dev log format in Future of the Fortress... Suggestions forum is for just that, and unfortunately Bay 12 doesn't have a mistake-ridden-essay section yet, but you can always hope

Back on track...  Footkerchief said that the old adventurers could become zombies... in Fortress mode how hostile shall non-infected Dwarves behave towards their lycanthropic brethren? I think, unlike zombie dwarves, weredwarves should stand of chance of achieving social integration, kind of like in Buffy, or Chopper from One Piece; would make for an awesome military.


edit - the nonsenseness of a "weredwarf" has just struck me... if "were" is the old germanic/saxon for "man", what is the old germanic for dwarf?

[counting]

Wait.. what?  Economics and currency standard discussions?  Didn't Threetoe just post about freaking-weredwarves not 12 hours ago??

Ah, some weretrolling spotted...

-- 7th economics essay in as many posts ---

Go easy there, counting, you've already participated in and started a separate thread on economics in the Suggestions forum, there is no need to bring that discussion here for the time being.  Try to stay with the general comment, chat, question regarding the dev log format in Future of the Fortress... Suggestions forum is for just that, and unfortunately Bay 12 doesn't have a mistake-ridden-essay section yet, but you can always hope

Back on track...  Footkerchief said that the old adventurers could become zombies... in Fortress mode how hostile shall non-infected Dwarves behave towards their lycanthropic brethren? I think, unlike zombie dwarves, weredwarves should stand of chance of achieving social integration, kind of like in Buffy, or Chopper from One Piece; would make for an awesome military.


edit - the nonsenseness of a "weredwarf" has just struck me... if "were" is the old germanic/saxon for "man", what is the old germanic for dwarf?

My bad, me like babble as dwarfs in fey moods . Can't stop it till dehydration or staved. Or can I be animated "back to life" using necromancy becoming weredwarf? XD

[Dae]

edit - the nonsenseness of a "weredwarf" has just struck me... if "were" is the old germanic/saxon for "man", what is the old germanic for dwarf?

I bet it's close to "dwarf" and wouldn't make sense anyway. A Dwarf-dwarf ?
What we need is the old saxon word for "feral aquaphobic demon who never gets out in the sunlight". Oh, wait...

[bitterhorn]

edit - the nonsenseness of a "weredwarf" has just struck me... if "were" is the old germanic/saxon for "man", what is the old germanic for dwarf?

If we're talking old english, we might end up with something like aeglaeca-dweorɡ?  Of course, this would most certainly be truncated and vowel-shifted into something more concise by now.

[Fieari]

I think with would be dweorwolf then?  Or in this case, dweorcapybara?  You'll note that "wolf" isn't in old english.  It's "Base Creature in Old English-Other Creature in Modern English".