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[Criptfeind]

On citizen soldiers, the proper legionnaires should only be citizens.  However, the auxiliaries should always welcome non-citizens- we need the manpower as it is.

I support the division of the spoils, though suggest there is a dispensation for the soldiers as well.

I think we should split the archers and horses into citizen and non-citizen group.

On the spoils, they would get the lions share of the part set aside for citizens and you know in your heart they are going to loot the crap out of everything they can get their little paws on. I see no reason to set aside a special amount for them.

[Toaster]

On citizen soldiers, the proper legionnaires should only be citizens.  However, the auxiliaries should always welcome non-citizens- we need the manpower as it is.

I support the division of the spoils, though suggest there is a dispensation for the soldiers as well.

I think we should split the archers and horses into citizen and non-citizen group.

On the spoils, they would get the lions share of the part set aside for citizens and you know in your heart they are going to loot the crap out of everything they can get their little paws on. I see no reason to set aside a special amount for them.

Agreed.

[evilcherry]

On citizen soldiers, the proper legionnaires should only be citizens.  However, the auxiliaries should always welcome non-citizens- we need the manpower as it is.

I support the division of the spoils, though suggest there is a dispensation for the soldiers as well.

I think we should split the archers and horses into citizen and non-citizen group.

On the spoils, they would get the lions share of the part set aside for citizens and you know in your heart they are going to loot the crap out of everything they can get their little paws on. I see no reason to set aside a special amount for them.

Agreed.

Seconded.

However, if they fight really well/graduated from the academy/served for some time we should confer them citizenry status.

[Criptfeind]

Disagree. Pay them well for such things, and if they want citizenry status they can buy it.

That way the people that do not care or do not want it will not be forced in citizenship.

[evilcherry]

Disagree. Pay them well for such things, and if they want citizenry status they can buy it.

That way the people that do not care or do not want it will not be forced in citizenship.

I don't think we have conscripted/levied foreign soldiers. If they do not like citizenship, they will not take it anyway.

[Criptfeind]

I don't think we have conscripted/levied foreign soldiers.

Yeah, I do not think so, but we do have at least some non-citizens. (Specially in the archers.)

If they do not like citizenship, they will not take it anyway.

Why force then into one choice? The money is much more fungible.

[evilcherry]

I don't think we have conscripted/levied foreign soldiers.

Yeah, I do not think so, but we do have at least some non-citizens. (Specially in the archers.)

If they do not like citizenship, they will not take it anyway.

Why force then into one choice? The money is much more fungible.

I thought the archers were citizens, unless someone pressed the slaves into the army.

[Toaster]

They're all citizens now, I believe.  However, once we conquer the Etruscans, we can use some them when we push further north or south along the peninsula.  Once they naturalize, rinse and repeat.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Random Samples of Graffiti around Rome

Roman citizenship is not for sale!  All true Roman citizens should boycot
                                                                                     House Equus's industries! Roman citizenship
                                                                                  is not for sale!
^{They should take Decia Equus's citizenship away. I'd like to seem them buy it back.}
Marcius Antoninus Aurelius is ashamed
to have been commanded by Aulus Decia Equus.      Even Otho Atilius Faustus
He and many other men are leaving the               is ashamed that Decia Equus would
horse auxilleries.                                      rape the honour of citizenship.
                       Barbarians and slaves shouldn't buy citizenship.
                  The senator from Decia Equus should be killed for suggesting such a thing.

[Dwarmin]

I'll add one more.

House Equus beef? Don't trust it. There's a reason all the cats in the neighborhood vanish when they set up a shop!

[Criptfeind]

They're all citizens now, I believe.  However, once we conquer the Etruscans, we can use some them when we push further north or south along the peninsula.  Once they naturalize, rinse and repeat.

Citizens are male land owners. Since so many people have had issues with losing their land, I do not think everyone would be a citizen.

And what I meant is that proven honorable men will be allowed to purchase land in the Roman empire proper, then after a period of time they would be considered citizens.

But if they wish to not be a citizen and they do not wish to own land, who are we to be giving out tracks of land to people who do not what it? Just use the cash equivalent.

Edit: Unless you are for some reason counting the proletarii as citizens, which since they had almost no power and very little political voice... I did not really.

[evilcherry]

To prevent confusion, the Aequus family has adopted a new cognomen, and they shall be referred to as Aequus Lignarius in the future.

[neotemplar]

Ok for civic works, you can donate to the separately.  But only in large amounts, this will ease the workload and you shouldn’t nickel and dime a huge structure anyway.

Citizens are male land owners. Since so many people have had issues with losing their land, I do not think everyone would be a citizen.  <-Yes.  Unless you try to change it.

New.  If marked with a TC industry value is capped off in this area.  You can expand it into new provinces but it’s at the limit of the current area.  Sometimes conquest will alter a region’s caps.  This is to prevent Italy from out ranching the American Southwest.  Or cutting more lumber than say, Germany or Lebanon.  Or amber from scandanavia. Etc, Etc.  Feel free to persuade me to raise caps if it is way off historically.  Or lower them.  Do both.  I just cannot know everything about this. 
Turn 7

Toririus Family: Bronze Sword Smithy 5T.  Yes none of the military has swords yet so this is low for now.
Augustine Family: Cattle Ranch Dairy Cows 10TC C is for cap.  Yep your gonna need a bunch of open land to improve this much.  Still demand is good.
Decia Equus:  Attack plan chosen.  Cattle ranch caps at 10TC  <-C is for cap.  No more improvement until resources or lands can be allocated.  +1 IP for duct work.  Horse ranch 15TC.  (also please see the 1 economic action rule from now on.)
The Aragii:  Brewery 20T  Yeah been waiting for someone to realize the commoners don’t just drink wine.  Now you do have a profitable one.
Aequus: Winery 10T.  Not as much demand as brew right now.  Also you are not growing the grapes so no special wines.
Tullius Family:  Theater is now 17T.
Knavii Family:  Carnal House 15T.  Another one I was expecting.

Imperial:
Numitor only noticed some aqueduct investments due to war planning.
Empire:
Preliminary aqueduct investigation on going.  A water source has been found.  But a mountain chain is in the way!!  What should be done?
Battle has been joined!  The legion loses 500 men.  The military is now 4.5 legions. 1000 bow aux, 1250 horse aux.
We won.  150 Slaves.  350 Tibers.  4 Units of land.  I’ll let the senate divide this 
Civic Works
Fishing Wharf, Small Shipyard, Slave Market
Military Training Camp Q:1  Augustine family runs this at pay 10T.
Aqueduct Location evaluation.

[Ahra]

are there an waitlist or not?  just curious.

[Toaster]

I suggest Roman bull-headed stubborness- we go through the mountains!  If it has to be underground part of the way, so be it.