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[Chilton]

Its actually kind-of already in the game.
I mean when an Interrogator jams needles under a captives fingernails, or holds their head under water, and shouts insults instead of persuasions. All those things.

My Suggestion is simply that theyre should be an option to do that all the time - Like, "Regular Interrogation - Violent Interrogation".
Thereby allowing you to choose to do those kinds of things, rather than them just be under pretty much random circumstances.

Personally, i also thought Sleep Deprivation and Starving/Dehydrating were nice (EDIT: And Switching Lights On and Off), but hell, thats small fish compared to the above.
I imagine it couldnt be that hard to incorporate, and i feel that itd further allow players to play the game their own separate ways.

Thankyou for your time
Community Feedback would be appreciated.

-Chilton
PS: Elite Liberal Justice! Imagine How Much You Could Dispense!


EDIT: I also know that having a High Wisdom and doing Violent Beatings + Expensive Props makes this happen fairly often - But its mostly flagpole and book beatings. I mean the serious Techniques, that arent as common.

[Angel Of Death]

I agree. I think it should enlighten the conservatives faster but have a chance to have a negative effect on the liberal torturer happy interrogater.


I have some ideas for negative effects:

X is disheartened by this vile torture: Liberal loses some heart.
X feels horrible because of the torture session: Liberal loses some juice

[Chilton]

I agree. I think it should enlighten the conservatives faster but have a chance to have a negative effect on the liberal torturer happy interrogater.


I have some ideas for negative effects:

X is disheartened by this vile torture: Liberal loses some heart.
X feels horrible because of the torture session: Liberal loses some juice

Good Point - Furthermore, it should also injure the Conservative more (obviously), causing you to need to be careful. Optionally, increase the risk of suicide.
But causing the Liberal to lose Heart and/or Juice would be good. Itd cause you to either use collateral Liberals, or be sparing with those tactics.

[Angel Of Death]

Maybe violent torture could also do some damage to the limbs of the conservative? It should be dependant on what limb(s) is/are targeted.


Here are some examples:

X smashes the conservatives kneecaps with a golf club!: Damages the legs.
X attaches bared wires connected to a power source to the conservatives face!: Damages the head.

[Chilton]

Maybe violent torture could also do some damage to the limbs of the conservative? It should be dependant on what limb(s) is/are targeted.


Here are some examples:

X smashes the conservatives kneecaps with a golf club!: Damages the legs.
X attaches bared wires attached to a power source to the conservatives face!: Damages the head.

After-effects would make sense.
I still think this has endless possibilities for Justice Interrogation tactics.

[Soadreqm]

I think the Liberal Premise is that the interrogation techniques used are a Liberal Means to an End, and the Conservative Scum has it coming anyway. That's pretty much what the game is about. You promote free speech and stricter gun control by storming the news station with assault rifles. I don't really see the point of being nice about abducting people at gunpoint and brainwashing them. If you want to be nice, just stick with the newspaper.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Just a footnote to the discussion, the way to make what you're asking more common under the current system is to use a Liberal with extremely low heart. Try having interrogations run by a former Conservative, and execute people regularly.

[Chilton]

Just a footnote to the discussion, the way to make what you're asking more common under the current system is to use a Liberal with extremely low heart. Try having interrogations run by a former Conservative, and execute people regularly.

Upon experimenting somewhat, this does indeed make more aggressive beatings more commonplace - However, they still tend to use Flags/Flagpoles, Books, and other less... Conservative tools.

But hey, its something For now, anyway.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Just a footnote to the discussion, the way to make what you're asking more common under the current system is to use a Liberal with extremely low heart. Try having interrogations run by a former Conservative, and execute people regularly.

Upon experimenting somewhat, this does indeed make more aggressive beatings more commonplace - However, they still tend to use Flags/Flagpoles, Books, and other less... Conservative tools.

But hey, its something For now, anyway.

The exact check for more extreme torture is that you have to be using expensive props AND fail an easy roll that uses your heart... it should be possible if your interrogator has less than 3 or 4 Heart. Try with a lead interrogator who has only 1 heart?

Regarding "other less Conservative tools"... oops. That was part of the draft item list because I was short on ideas for flavored props while sketching the system out, it wasn't supposed to make it into the actual game. The intended flavor text is things like physically beating someone with a copy of origin of the species... and such politically relevant props. Even the Bible Black reference makes more sense. Oh well, the whole section is pretty tasteless anyway.

[Chilton]

Tasteless?
If you ever want suggestions for Torture Tactics you can fit into that small piece of text space, feel free to ask.
I have way too many ideas. Way too many. As in... More than anyone *should* have

I mean, jamming Needles under someones nails may be one thing.
Why not sticking your finger into its eye and shouting insults into its face?
"Chilton presses his fingertip into the Automatons eye,
screaming [So forth]"

Or smacking its gut with a hammer.
"Chilton repeatedly strikes the Automaton in the gut with a Hammer,
screaming [So forth]"

Or sticking a baton into its mouth and trying to force it down its throat, while blocking its nose?
"Chilton blocks the Automatons nose, and forces a baton into its mouth, breaking teeth,
screaming [So forth]"

Or cutting off fingertips?
"Chilton cuts off one of the Automations fingerips,
shouting [So forth]"

Never ask where i get these ideas. Ive spent way too much time contemplating them.


And for references, you could force the Automaton to stare at your Slogan, flickering against a wall.



EDIT: More so...

Hanging it by the ankles, and beating it with a baton.
"Chilton hangs the Automaton by the ankles, and beats it fiercely with a Baton,
shouting [So Forth]"

Just a footnote to the discussion, the way to make what you're asking more common under the current system is to use a Liberal with extremely low heart. Try having interrogations run by a former Conservative, and execute people regularly.

Upon experimenting somewhat, this does indeed make more aggressive beatings more commonplace - However, they still tend to use Flags/Flagpoles, Books, and other less... Conservative tools.

But hey, its something For now, anyway.

The exact check for more extreme torture is that you have to be using expensive props AND fail an easy roll that uses your heart... it should be possible if your interrogator has less than 3 or 4 Heart. Try with a lead interrogator who has only 1 heart?

Regarding "other less Conservative tools"... oops. That was part of the draft item list because I was short on ideas for flavored props while sketching the system out, it wasn't supposed to make it into the actual game. The intended flavor text is things like physically beating someone with a copy of origin of the species... and such politically relevant props. Even the Bible Black reference makes more sense. Oh well, the whole section is pretty tasteless anyway.

[Zangi]

Eh, I'd say keep it in the realm of the light-hearted fun poking in the LCS tradition instead of downright torture.

[EuchreJack]

Agreed.  I generally consider it a bad moment (and I'm certain it was designed as such) when my Hippie enlighteners use one of the Arch-Conservative interrogation techniques, both horrifying me and gaining a point of wisdom.

Note that the check looks to both interrogator's heart and wisdom, so that high heart and low wisdom are both desireable.  If wisdom rises too high, the liberal is useless for enlightening.

If you want realism, note that Patty Hearst was raped as part of her "indoctrination", and Charles Manson forced his straight "followers" to engage in forced homosexual activities as their "indoctrination" process.  Hence, realism is neither desired nor proper to the light-hearted mood.

[Chilton]

Agreed.  I generally consider it a bad moment (and I'm certain it was designed as such) when my Hippie enlighteners use one of the Arch-Conservative interrogation techniques, both horrifying me and gaining a point of wisdom.

Note that the check looks to both interrogator's heart and wisdom, so that high heart and low wisdom are both desireable.  If wisdom rises too high, the liberal is useless for enlightening.

If you want realism, note that Patty Hearst was raped as part of her "indoctrination", and Charles Manson forced his straight "followers" to engage in forced homosexual activities as their "indoctrination" process.  Hence, realism is neither desired nor proper to the light-hearted mood.

TL;DR: LCS is Light Hearted if you play it Light Heartedly. But there are plenty of people who do not. And for the benefit of having more options available for different Playstyles, I made this whole thread as a suggestion.

Your forgetting that Hippies wouldnt do it - Youd need to have Low Heart and High Wisdom.

Its just fitting different playstyles. Some people like to Guitar or Newspaper their way to Liberalism. Others Gun-up and Shoot People. Others Rob Places. Others Perform lots of Liberal Disobedience. Others like myself Kidnap and Enlighten people.

Which is what got me thinking - As it is, People with Low Heart + High Wisdom, who i have seen quite capably Enlighten people at times using Hallucinogens, can already Jam Needles under Fingernails, Replicate Scenes from Abu Gharaid (Or whatever its called), beat Automatons with Belts, Metal Bats, Books, Steel Cables, Flags, Flagpoles... Hold their heads under water, Beat them with Dildos, and all means of other stuff.

All im saying is, in the interests of remaining true to its nature, why not make Conservative Interrogations actually Conservative style, rather than having them sometimes barely different to Liberal tactics?

And i dont quite see how LCS is Light Hearted, beyond the subjective interpritation of the individual.
Try making a new Character, killing a few Liberals until your Wisdom is high and your "Cold", then do some Expensive Prop + Violent Beating Interrogations.
You find the game Light Hearted because you play it Light Heartedly.
Thats is NOT a criticism, im just iterating that different people play in different ways.

Like Arming everyone with Knives, and stabbing Adolescent Girls for a laugh.
Or Kidnapping people just so you can Execute them.
And remember how you used to be able to switch of lights, induce sleep deprivation, and starve/dehydrate captives? Very Light Mooded.
But COMPLETELY OPTIONAL, so that you could simply do it if you freely chose to play the game that way.
Some people March Into Conservative Bases, And SprayPaint Logos.
Some people Walk Around Playing Guitars To Turn people.

Rape couldnt be added to the flak Mr Fox would catch from it.
But this game was inspired by the SLA, so perhaps itd be a good idea to add in something comparable, regardless?
Albeit beating people with Dildos could mean a few different things.

But like i say, this is Liberal Crime Squad. It can be played as Liberal Pacifist Squad, but i figure that since i can don DeathSquad Armour and do god knows what else, there should be at least more random lines in the pool.
Just my opinion, and at least a couple of people in this thread agree.

I didnt really want to go into this much detail, as itll seem like an attack on Lighter playstyles, but i assure you it ISNT.
There are other playstyles that dont have as much attention paid to them, and thats what im mainly trying to convey.

I think the Liberal Premise is that the interrogation techniques used are a Liberal Means to an End, and the Conservative Scum has it coming anyway. That's pretty much what the game is about. You promote free speech and stricter gun control by storming the news station with assault rifles. I don't really see the point of being nice about abducting people at gunpoint and brainwashing them. If you want to be nice, just stick with the newspaper.

Maybe violent torture could also do some damage to the limbs of the conservative? It should be dependant on what limb(s) is/are targeted.


Here are some examples:

X smashes the conservatives kneecaps with a golf club!: Damages the legs.
X attaches bared wires connected to a power source to the conservatives face!: Damages the head.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I don't think I'll change the more brutal torture to be voluntary; I'm rather comfortable with it being only a nasty accident if you completely sell your Liberals' souls. When I rewrote interrogation awhile back, I went about as graphic and violent as I would be okay with, and then wondered if it was a step too far.

I'm personally not comfortable with sexual violence in the game, explicit or implied. The pickup lines are different; they're consensual, they're stupid, they're funny. But I was surprised the line about dildos was in there. When I wrote it, I was extremely short on ideas, and was planning on replacing it later. It was a placeholder that never got swapped out, for which I sincerely apologize. It will be removed next release. I've written some more funny/political things to replace that section, like beating them with a cardboard cutout of Reagan, a giant stuffed elephant, or while draped in a Confederate flag.

In real life, I'm a pacifist. Not a no-violence-ever pacifist, the kind that favors investing power in police and government, letting them resolve conflicts with rule of law instead of having people take matters into their own hands, thereby causing wars that trigger vastly more suffering than the original problem. I'm able to make LCS, despite it going directly contrary to that, because it is a satire. When it's serious, it's often because it's being preachy about how genuinely horrible someone is being, whether you or them; there are serious news stories about horrible crimes committed off-camera, and serious moments where you let your Liberals go beyond the pale. And there are in-game consequences to that.

It's true that combat is quite severe and violent. One of the things I liked about replacing police sieges with SWAT teams is that it punishes this gameplay style without making it any less interesting or viable. I take some pleasure in engineering ways for society to stop you when you choose to be evil, and then giving you interesting ways of fighting back or escaping. Sieges are a moment that pierce through the veil of Liberal self-indulgence and force you to face reality, that society doesn't like you, and will do anything to stop you. They're tough, scary, interesting. They bring down the hammer in a clutch moment and challenge you to play well or be destroyed. If you fail, good triumphs. You chose to be evil, the forces of good rallied against you, and you couldn't follow through. I'm not rooting for you, but that doesn't mean I want it to be unfair. I'm a game designer, not an activist. I want it to be ruthlessly interesting.

[Chilton]

I don't think I'll change the more brutal torture to be voluntary; I'm rather comfortable with it being only a nasty accident if you completely sell your Liberals' souls. When I rewrote interrogation awhile back, I went about as graphic and violent as I would be okay with, and then wondered if it was a step too far.

I'm personally not comfortable with sexual violence in the game, explicit or implied. The pickup lines are different; they're consensual, they're stupid, they're funny. But I was surprised the line about dildos was in there. When I wrote it, I was extremely short on ideas, and was planning on replacing it later. It was a placeholder that never got swapped out, for which I sincerely apologize. It will be removed next release. I've written some more funny/political things to replace that section, like beating them with a cardboard cutout of Reagan, a giant stuffed elephant, or while draped in a Confederate flag.

In real life, I'm a pacifist. Not a no-violence-ever pacifist, the kind that favors investing power in police and government, letting them resolve conflicts with rule of law instead of having people take matters into their own hands, thereby causing wars that trigger vastly more suffering than the original problem. I'm able to make LCS, despite it going directly contrary to that, because it is a satire. When it's serious, it's often because it's being preachy about how genuinely horrible someone is being, whether you or them; there are serious news stories about horrible crimes committed off-camera, and serious moments where you let your Liberals go beyond the pale. And there are in-game consequences to that.

It's true that combat is quite severe and violent. One of the things I liked about replacing police sieges with SWAT teams is that it punishes this gameplay style without making it any less interesting or viable. I take some pleasure in engineering ways for society to stop you when you choose to be evil, and then giving you interesting ways of fighting back or escaping. Sieges are a moment that pierce through the veil of Liberal self-indulgence and force you to face reality, that society doesn't like you, and will do anything to stop you. They're tough, scary, interesting. They bring down the hammer in a clutch moment and challenge you to play well or be destroyed. If you fail, good triumphs. You chose to be evil, the forces of good rallied against you, and you couldn't follow through. I'm not rooting for you, but that doesn't mean I want it to be unfair. I'm a game designer, not an activist. I want it to be ruthlessly interesting.

The irony here is that I tend to take a Newspaper/Thief Playstyle - With a few Enforcers who keep things under control when the going gets slow. This was going to be another TL;DR, but it isnt necessary.

Sexual violence would not be good. I was mainly iterating the afore persons comment about it, as he referenced the SLA; However in hindsight i didnt phrase said comment too well.
The pickup lines... Tragically enough, might actually work against someone in a Bar. Late at night. With Ruffies.

Above all else, ill say this: This is LIBERAL Crime Squad, not CONSERVATIVE Crime Squad. There is A Conservative Crime Squad, but it is not you.
Your job is to get rid of Conservatism, technically.

Before i go into that slightly, ill deviate and say that SWAT Teams are also quite realistic, as its closer to a believable retaliation against serious criminals.

Back to Conservatism/Liberalism;
But the main question ive been trying (Admittedly quite poorly, by attempting to get the idea in through less direct methods) to prop is, that your Liberal Crime Squad can operate entirely as a group of Thieves toting a Liberal Banner.
Or Saboteurs. Or Muggers. Or whathaveyou - But if you choose to be some Kidnapper, who supports his malign desires with a few guys who Solicit Donations, you have very little in the way of perceptives.

Ok, ill admit, i went a bit overboard before with suggestions, im not going to lie. Spur of the moment - None of that would work in this game. At all. Itd just be excessive.

But a bit more along the same mediated level, such as (Actually decent suggestions perhaps 
The use of a Baton - You have a Metal Bat, a Baton is easier to control as a beating tool.
I wont go any further, but i just think that with the level of attention and variation paid to everything else, some more interesting (As in, A larger quantity of interesting) lines could make a bit of a difference.

Now that ive reiterrated most of what ive previously said in ways which in hindsight make significantly more sense;
Yes.

Anyhow, whichever way it goes, Dildos will still make excellent placeholders.