Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Think0028]

So unless something changes, this will end in no lynch. That would be really bad.

Powder Miner: You seem extremely convinced that Jim is scum over him pushing you to attack Okami. Considering he wasn't telling you to vote Okami, only push him with more questions, why did you refuse to for so long? How is his vote an OMGUS when he clearly stated that he was voting for you because you weren't questioning Okami? You seemed to think just saying "Okami is suspicious" is sufficient and that you didn't need to do anything more. Was that what you were thinking? Why did you not want to formalize that into questions?

Okami: I posted some questions earlier, and I presume you'll see them and answer them in your upcoming wall of text.

[Powder Miner]

I don't really know about Jim anymore, but I refused because I wanted to wait for Okami to post something I could bite into instea of recycling arguments.

[Think0028]

I don't really know about Jim anymore, but I refused because I wanted to wait for Okami to post something I could bite into instea of recycling arguments.

Really? Okami's been posting quite a lot, putting out a big wall of text every day except for yesterday and right when the game started, where he had multiple posts attacking Taricus. You couldn't find anything in there? We've thoroughly dissected his posts? Why were you hesitant to try?

[Powder Miner]

Hmmm? I've been gone at middle school. I only really kim what's happened when I'm gone, although I try to make it otherwise.

[Jim Groovester]

I don't really know about Jim anymore, but I refused because I wanted to wait for Okami to post something I could bite into instea of recycling arguments.

I'll quote Toaster about this:

This is a start, but the question is weak.  You should have enough content by now to be asking prying questions regarding statements the target has made, not offhand questions that could be dismissed with a simple "I've been busy."

There's definitely stuff to dig into. Worrying about recycling arguments is a pretty weak excuse to not ask probing questions.

You've never actually stated what about Okami No Rei you found suspicious. If you're worried about recycling arguments then you have to agree with all the other people who've spoken out on Okami No Rei about something.

I think you should list what you find suspicious.

[Powder Miner]

Well, first of all, I'm inagreement with you about how it's a bandwagon trap, and how he accuses anyone else who scumhunts or remotely comes close (anzki) of being scum, and that "two scum with flawless towngames" quote that Heliman had noticed.

[Jim Groovester]

I'd like a little more detail.

...and that "two scum with flawless towngames" quote that Heliman had noticed.

Okami No Rei explained that. Didn't you notice?

Or are you not keeping track of what you're supposed to be suspecting him for?

[Powder Miner]

He did explain it? Where?

[Think0028]

He did explain it? Where?

For most people, this'd be a cue to go look and find it. However, I'm feeling nice:

I don't know that, but I would be very concerned about scum getting one-on-one coaching from him, and it's the worst case scenario I'm assuming in any theories around his being scum.

[Okami No Rei]

I did expect things to happen in the 18 hours I was gone.  On my return, I analyzed what had happened.  The bandwagon did materialize, and one of the members looked like scum.  I am now interrogating him.  Had the bandwagon never materialized, which is what I assume you meant, I'd have come up with a new plan, or revised my old one to work in the new environment.

You got Supercharazad, the (now second) jumpiest player I've ever seen on this forums, and Powder Miner, who as we now see is extremely excitable, to actually vote. I'd count that as a failed bandwagon.

My accusations of Supercharazad are independent of his jumpiness, and I also found Anzki.  Deliberately failed bandwagon.  Successful scumhunt.

Because Taricus (FAKEDIT: And now Powder Miner, I suppose) is the easy lynch right now.  The ones that hopped on the bandwagon aren't so easy as you seem to think, since everyone's looking at them as victims right now.  I'm pushing for one of them because I think one of them is scum, not because he's easy.

They're looking at them as victims because you called them out as the culmination to a half-assed plot you grabbed to try and save yourself.

To save myself?  No.  I already said I did it to salvage a day of failed scumhunting.

The easy lynches are the guy you were pushing for and the guy who flipped out in the middle of your posting, so you can hardly say that you were good and noble and virtuous not pushing for Powder Miner.

His flipout looked like honest panic rather than scum panic to me at the time that I posted.  I wouldn't say I was good, noble, and virtuous as much as tired, confused, and not ready to deal with this right now.

You're voting for a guy who agreed with you when you were supposedly acting as town. This is all just you sowing suspicion now that your attempts to take someone down are failing.

I'm voting for the guy who I believe to be semi-experienced jumping onto a bandwagon and then lying about the reasons he gave for jumping on, and the guy who more or less subtly supported said bandwagon.  These two are the first people I've seriously pushed to take down, and I don't see it failing yet.

Taricus is OMGUSing, which is a nulltell like everything else about him. Heliman and Think are following Jim as the Voice of Authority and Reason.  Not a scumtell, since he's an IC.  Jim's is the only vote that really means anything.  At least one is scum?  Very likely if I'm wrong about Super and Anzki.  Which one is the question.  I'm still working out Jim's game.  I'd lay even odds that Think or Heliman is scum.  Are both?  Taricus and Think are the only possibility that springs to mind.  Heliman and Jim are a longshot.  None of the other combinations work.

Lumping me in with the guy who refuses to say anything, thanks. So I'm possibly scum because I agree with two other people (and one who's OMGUSing you, but he's not relevant to this conversation)? This is all just sowing doubt to distract us from the issues at hand.

I'm not 'sowing doubt' as you say.  I'm making a prediction based on my grasp of the current situation combined with the restrictions Toaster placed on the request.

You tried to lead an attack on someone, it failed, and now you're trying to use that attack to implicate other people. You aren't scumhunting. You're scum.

I tried to press someone, and got stonewalled, so I pressed harder and am now hunting people based on their reactions to my actions.

If Okami's latest post is true, and he saw Jim's post before quitting, he knew even back then that it was instantly called out as not helpful for town and didn't explain himself then. Okami, why do you still think your plan has merit? Why did you go through with it after Jim called you out?

Jim didn't call me out on my plan, he called me out on pressing Taricus.  Pressing Taricus alone had no further merit.  That's why I decided to press harder and trawl for reactions.  All Jim calling me out on it did was push forward my timeline.  I still believe my plan has merit because I still believe it caught scum.

Why are you so certain that of the two people who voted with you, a scum was one of them?

Because he slipped up.

If we believe you that you were pressing Taricus to get him to play better, why don't we believe Supercharazad, who repeatedly pressed Taricus on being a better player?

Your comparison of us lies on faulty logic.  If I made you a sandwich out of peanut butter and jelly, and he made you a sandwich out of peanut butter and cyanide, would we be equally at fault because we both used peanut butter?
Pressing him on being a better player is irrelevant.  I attacked Taricus to find scum, and failing that, used my attack to find scum.  He attacked Taricus, and lied in the course of justifying his attack.

Okami No Rei, why Supercharazad over anzki4? You've accused both of them of similar things, and in my mind, what anzki4 did was worse, what with parroting Supercharazad over broken quote tags. I think your points about Supercharazad parroting you are, quite frankly, crap, and calling him a liar when it could just as easily be that he saw the same things about Taricus that you did is stretching it pretty far. anzki4, though, you've got something there, something I can totally see, so why's your vote on Supercharazad?

Because I pieced the post together chronologically, and I'd already written my vote onto him when I got to anzki.  Both deserve it.

Why didn't you question anzki about parroting, if it's so awful?

That seems inconsistent. And lies? Yeah, right. That's hyberpole to make what Supercharazad did seem scummier than what it actually was. In other words, that was disingenuous and you should be lynched for it.

One lie.  Claiming his arguments were his own and not that of others.

So, basically, you're saying I shouldn't play because other people get to see their posts before me?

Every single post I provided as evidence against your claim was posted prior to your own.  You're saying you didn't see them?  They were there for you to read.  I can understand missing one, but all of them?

So you don't read everything, but you consistently answer questions and respond to answers to yours.  Assuming you're telling the truth here, it looks to me like you're just skimming for your name and then questioning/responding to whatever pops up.  Why be so selective?  I don't think you care about scumhunting so much as keeping up appearances.

You think I should stay perfectly silent because my arguments have been used once before?

No, but when your sole justification for speaking out is clearly a fabrication, that tends to set off a few alarm bells.

So, Okami. Why would you not scumhunt directly?

I was scumhunting directly, and I was also scumhunting indirectly.  I've been attacking on multiple fronts the entire game.

Why would you have to weave an elaborate supposed bandwagon trap,

Because I can.

and end up using it to blame someone of being scum, namely everyone else who scumhunts Taricus.

Get your facts straight.  I was looking for reactions.  Joining the bandwagon is a reaction.  The manner in which they joined the bandwagon is the important part, and the part I'm using against people.

And then why would you have to defend Taricus?

I'm not defending him.  Please provide evidence.

Why not just go out and scumhunt.

Because it's more Fun this way.

That was easier than expected.

Keep it up, then.

Okami, who you're trying to get lynched?

Supercharazad and anzki4

So..... Okami, why haven't you been posting?

I've been busy.

@Okami

Heliman now.  He's already parroting Jim.  Presciently, even.

Excuse me? Where and how?

I was thinking of these two posts:

@Think
Okami. Why? WHY??? Ok I'll tell you.

@Okami
I'm not falling for this load of "Oh no I was just pretending to hunt newbie scum the others scum hunting this guy are the real scum!" Bullshit. This entire charade could easily be an  attempt to quell the players suspicious of you for going after the weakest link. It doesn't automatically justify a sham of a scum hunt followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.

Since you're clearly not a beginner, I'll tell you straight.

That plan is stupid.

You'll just as easily catch inexperienced town as you will inexperienced scum. And since the game's full of inexperienced players, how actually worthwhile are the results you got?

To everybody else who isn't a beginner: Don't even think about trying to be clever. I don't want to see any clever plans or carefully laid traps or anything like that. If I have anything to say about it you'll learn a decent, basic, fundamental town game first, and then after you've got the basics down, then you can think about being clever.

Everybody got that? NO CLEVER PLANS. Good fundamental scumhunting habits are vastly more important.

It's not a perfect comparison, but it did allow me to use the word parrot.

Anzki - If you're still there, the day isn't over yet.  Let's hear some answers.

Powder Miner - You're panicking, dropping WIFOM like candy, and making excuses.  Why shouldn't I drop everything and vote you right now?  If you think I'm scum, why aren't you voting me?  What happened to your suspicions of Taricus?

Heliman and Powder Miner - Is Jim scum, or not, and why?

Toaster  - If no one else posted for the rest of the day, would you leave your vote on Powder Miner or switch it to me?

FAKEDIT:

He did explain it? Where?

Here:

Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?

Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.

*does a spittake*
What? Two flawless scum? how could you possibly know that?

I don't know that, but I would be very concerned about scum getting one-on-one coaching from him, and it's the worst case scenario I'm assuming in any theories around his being scum.

Okami:

Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?

Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.

So who's the other scum with a flawless towngame?

Powder Miner was my choice up until this post:

Not posting, just privately. Shoulda made it clear. Middle school keeps me from posting most of the day. And I meant before I NOTICED he made the point. Never mind. Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on Tarius because he's still scummy seeming and I'm afraid I'll get accused of bandwagoning if I vote for Okami.

Heliman now.  He's already parroting Jim.  Presciently, even.

[Vector]

Better, ONR, but you'll play better once you've taken the arrogance down a peg.

[Think0028]

... damn.

As much as I'd hate to be "the one that always does what Jim does", I'm not quite willing to lynch you now, Okami. I doubt your character, but I don't think that your actions imply that you're scum. To me they imply that you're extremely overconfident in yourself. The question to me is if your confidence comes from your personality or you knowing everything there is to know because you're scum... and I can't answer that.

Unvote. Powder Miner. While I can forgive you for panicking at having your first vote on you (I felt much the same way when Toaster first voted me), I can't forgive you for your failure to press Okami, you exploding at whoever pushes you, and your trouble reading the posts of the guy you say you 'suspect'. I missed this choice quote earlier:

And you're right. I AM waiting for Okami to post, because I haven't been paying attention to his posts.

You couldn't take the time to sit down and read his posts? If you're really a townie, why couldn't you just wait a little while to respond and formulate a good response? I think the reason you couldn't wait was because you're scum and you wanted your reputation cleared as soon as possible.

[Toaster]

Okami:

Toaster  - If no one else posted for the rest of the day, would you leave your vote on Powder Miner or switch it to me?

Nasty choice.  I'm pretty convinced Powder is scum, and you ping only faintly on my scumdar.  No-lynch helps no one, so I probably would switch as a last resort.

I assume you'd switch to Powder to prevent a no-lynch?

PPE:  Well, there went the tie.  The answer and question remain.


Super:  I'm not seeing enough content out of you to satisfy me.  Can you restate your cases on your top two or three picks?

[Jim Groovester]

Powder Miner! Hey! Look! Okami No Rei posted! When are you going to press him?!?! He's right there! Do it! What are you waiting for?!

Okami No Rei, why Supercharazad over anzki4? You've accused both of them of similar things, and in my mind, what anzki4 did was worse, what with parroting Supercharazad over broken quote tags. I think your points about Supercharazad parroting you are, quite frankly, crap, and calling him a liar when it could just as easily be that he saw the same things about Taricus that you did is stretching it pretty far. anzki4, though, you've got something there, something I can totally see, so why's your vote on Supercharazad?

Because I pieced the post together chronologically, and I'd already written my vote onto him when I got to anzki.  Both deserve it.

Why didn't you question anzki about parroting, if it's so awful?

So, what? You can't go back and edit your post halfway through?

I asked you why Supercharazad was more worthy of a vote, and your answer is that you put red text around Supercharazad's name first?

That's weak.

I didn't question anzki4 about it because 1) I'm not obsessed with calling everybody a parrot like you are, and 2) it looked like a noob mistake.

That seems inconsistent. And lies? Yeah, right. That's hyberpole to make what Supercharazad did seem scummier than what it actually was. In other words, that was disingenuous and you should be lynched for it.

One lie.  Claiming his arguments were his own and not that of others.

Hokay, bro. Sure thing.

Powder Miner - You're panicking, dropping WIFOM like candy, and making excuses.  Why shouldn't I drop everything and vote you right now?

Good question. Why aren't you? Those are several very good reasons to vote for somebody. What's holding you back? You're not partners with him, are you?

[Okami No Rei]

Okami:

Toaster  - If no one else posted for the rest of the day, would you leave your vote on Powder Miner or switch it to me?

Nasty choice.  I'm pretty convinced Powder is scum, and you ping only faintly on my scumdar.  No-lynch helps no one, so I probably would switch as a last resort.

I assume you'd switch to Powder to prevent a no-lynch?

Ideally, yes.   However, the choice for me is less clear cut, since I won't be around at days end.

Okami No Rei, why Supercharazad over anzki4? You've accused both of them of similar things, and in my mind, what anzki4 did was worse, what with parroting Supercharazad over broken quote tags. I think your points about Supercharazad parroting you are, quite frankly, crap, and calling him a liar when it could just as easily be that he saw the same things about Taricus that you did is stretching it pretty far. anzki4, though, you've got something there, something I can totally see, so why's your vote on Supercharazad?

Because I pieced the post together chronologically, and I'd already written my vote onto him when I got to anzki.  Both deserve it.

Why didn't you question anzki about parroting, if it's so awful?

So, what? You can't go back and edit your post halfway through?

Sure can.  If it's important, I do.

I asked you why Supercharazad was more worthy of a vote, and your answer is that you put red text around Supercharazad's name first?

That's weak.

I didn't, and still don't, have any reason to suspect one over the other.

I didn't question anzki4 about it because 1) I'm not obsessed with calling everybody a parrot like you are, and 2) it looked like a noob mistake.

Didn't you just say

in my mind, what anzki4 did was worse, what with parroting Supercharazad over broken quote tags. I think your points about Supercharazad parroting you

You're appear to be more obsessed with the parroting than I am, and seem to think anzki's parroting was important.

So, is it or isn't it? 

I've never been attacking Supercharazad for parroting.  I've never been attacking anzki for parroting.  Supercharazad lied about his reasons for voting Taricus.  anzki is pushing bandwagons on me and Taricus without getting his hands dirty.  Both are scum.

Powder Miner - You're panicking, dropping WIFOM like candy, and making excuses.  Why shouldn't I drop everything and vote you right now?

Good question. Why aren't you? Those are several very good reasons to vote for somebody. What's holding you back? You're not partners with him, are you?

I don't think he's scum, and this close to day end, I'm not going to put my vote on him just to apply pressure.  I'm voting to lynch.