More of a salvage operation of a scumhunt gone sour.
And now you're changing up your story.
I was directing the pressure to try and improve his game, but the primary concern is to create a sufficient amount of chaos that opportunistic, inexperienced scum scramble out of the woodwork at the the smell of an easy lynch.
You could understand how somebody could get the impression that it was your plan from the start to use Taricus as bait for inexperienced scum, considering that it was apparently 'the primary concern'.
And now you're saying that it was a scumhunt gone sour.
So which is it?
Ahem...
Speaking of your motives, why the hell are you being so hard on Taricus? You're putting a lot of pressure on him. I don't think it's because you actually think he's scum. I think it's because you want to make a good show of scumhunting.
You know what scumhunting for appearances' sake is? Scummy.
You're right. I don't think he's scum. I don't think he's not scum, either. At this point I've been more interested in seeing the reactions to my pressing him. Specifically, I've been using him as bait while trawling for bandwagoning scum. That plan's over now I've said it, which is why I waited until tonight rather than last night to post again (needing to sleep and go to work played a role in the decision as well). Now I've got a veritable mountain of reactions to sift through.
From the start, I was questioning him in order to get a read on him. When he proved unreadable, my priorities changed to salvaging the interrogation by pushing it beyond reasonable territory, thereby getting reads one everyone from the responses to it. So it's both. Only by twisting my words do you arrive at the conclusion that my stories changed.
Continuing to interrogate Taricus wasn't exactly getting me anywhere. I don't like doing work and then having nothing to show for my efforts.
Ah, so I was right. You were just pressuring Taricus for show.
Semantics. Again, you twist my words to have your own meaning. Do I need to spell it out for you?
I don't work for nothing. In this case, I work to catch scum. Interrogating Taricus directly was not helping catch scum, but a simple shift in tactics part way through did.
Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon
Pushing for scum. Bandwagons, like mobs, tend to form around action.
you didn't want to physically participate in
Certainly not after I saw I wasn't getting anywhere. Like I said, I like to see results.
that didn't materialize.
Because I was the one who shut it down.
There was a fair bit of time between you starting the push on Taricus and you 'revealing' your master plot. About 24 hours or so. While I understand that you can only make so many content filled posts or so, you can't say that you didn't expect anything to happen in those 24 hours. What would you have done if the bandwagon really materialized? Maybe it's just me, but I feel like you're pushing for someone to hang, even if they're non-scum.
I did expect things to happen in the 18 hours I was gone. On my return, I analyzed what had happened. The bandwagon
did materialize, and one of the members looked like scum. I am now interrogating him. Had the bandwagon never materialized, which is what I assume you meant, I'd have come up with a new plan, or revised my old one to work in the new environment.
Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.
Blame? For the bandwagon? Who? I'm the one who started it, collapsed it, and am now hunting with its remains.
To blame for hopping onto a bandwagon of your own creation. It's one thing to point out people hopping onto a bandwagon, it's another if you're driving it. Why should we believe that you aren't scum pushing for the easy lynch? First you go for the guy unwilling to commit or post anything, then you go for the ones who hop on a bandwagon, again, that you started.
What I don't see is someone who's actually concerned with finding scum. What I see is someone who's concerned with finding lynchable people. Why Supercharazad? What makes you think that his vote is a scum vote and not a beginner townie vote?
Because Taricus (FAKEDIT: And now Powder Miner, I suppose) is the easy lynch right now. The ones that hopped on the bandwagon aren't so easy as you seem to think, since everyone's looking at them as victims right now. I'm pushing for one of them because I think one of them is scum, not because he's easy.
Scum are very lynchable people, and Supercharazad is scum. He's a liar, as I show in detail below.
It doesn't automatically justify a sham of a scum hunt
A sham? Do elaborate on this claim. Bring evidence.
Don't need to pillweef, because the answer is simple. You said yourself that you weren't scum hunting Taricus because he was scummy, therefore your scum hunt was a ruse.
I said I stopped trying because I didn't think he was scum, but I didn't think he was not scum, either. I couldn't get him to play, so I couldn't get a read on him, so continuing was a waste of my time.
followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.
Planned lurk? That's what you call knocking off for the night, and returning the next day? I've got another four of those planned for the rest of this week.
You're changing your story again, you said that the lurk was a tactical move to get "reactions" and work and sleep played a role in deciding to wait.
I was fixing to retire for the night at the time anyways, then Jim calls me out on pushing Taricus as hard as I was, and I knew the plan was shot. So I decided to get some sleep and explain myself the next day, in order to give the plan time to generate results before I had to blow it out of the water.
To everyone, I might not be playing well today due to a series of events, including kneeing my own neck, resulting in a bad cold and a neck that is very painful when I turn it. Thus, my concentration is probably going to be a bit off.
No kidding. You're using Toaster's points now as well.
Are you trying to defend Tacricus?
Heavens, no. If he won't take the time and effort to play, I'm certainly not going to take the time and effort to defend him.
In RVS, I think any amount of bandwagoning is fine, so long as you can give a reason and a question.
You hopped on a bandwagon. You gave several questions. Let's see your explanation:
Actually, I didn't notice you using those arguments. But, why are you saying that I shouldn't be bandwagoning, when I have my own arguments?
You've got arguments, sure, but none of them are, as you say, your own.
Allow me to demonstrate:
Supercharizard - Hiding something?
Taricus - Nothing to add? At least he included a decent RVS question when he stacked votes. Jumping on an easy target like that, without even contributing to the investigation, is downright lazy, and terribly scummy. Try again.
vs
Supercharizard - Hiding something?
unvote
So, as a matter of fact, I'm not.
Tell me, why the vauge RV? What possible outcome would that answer have generated other than a "no"?
Tacricus, Why the vauge RV? Also, who would prefer as your scumpartner?
I've already called him out on his poor excuse for a RV.
Okami No Rei - No substance to the attack, and not very convincing argument means it'll fall through.
Are you talking about my attack on you, or are you answering my question? Either way, it's RVS. I'm pushing you for a lead because you might be scum, and you might slip and give me something solid to work with. You need to do the same. Take your minor suspicions and substance-less attacks and use them as tools to harvest material for convincing arguments and uncover solid evidence.
You still haven't addressed the primary concern. Are you bandwagoning scum or aren't you? If not, why?
Answering the following might help your case:
Why'd you vote him in the first place if you weren't interested in questioning him? Why aren't you questioning anyone right now?
You're activelurking right now, which only benefits the scum. Defend yourself! Attack somebody! Do something!
vs
If you know what I meant now, then why not answer?
Not answering questions, that'd be a scumtell you know.
and
No information, no motive yet. I say we attempt a stalemate for the lynch this round, call suspicions rather than voting.
Passiveness: Scumtell.
I've already hammered him for not answering questions and playing passively.
Fact is I don't have much information to give.
You're going to get pressured in this game- everyone does. Come to expect it.
Pressure applied to someone doesn't equal the fact that you'll get much out of them. Not to mention that a scum would be more subtle than me.
Pressure generally won't go away if the person applying it doesn't like what they get out of it.
Beyond that, that logic you used ("Scum me wouldn't do this") is actually no good, commonly referred to here as WIFOM. Simply put, 99 times out of 100 that type of statement does no good and shouldn't be used.
I don't see you applying pressure of your own. Why aren't you questioning people?
vs
Possibly, though they get a kill reguardless if we get one of them this day or not, and whoever got killed at that night may either been onto something or completely off.
They MAY have been on to something. WIFOM right here.
Toaster's already pointed out the WIFOM.
So you don't actually have any arguments of your own against him. Why'd you join the bandwagon, or, if you prefer, why'd you lie?
So you think he's pretending newbiness? Show us the evidence. Just a hunch? Why aren't you interrogating him yourself? You can't just say "I think he's scum" and not be providing reasons or actively searching for them. You're not even voting for him (or anyone else at the moment, for that matter, what's up with that?).
Yes, you could call that just a hunch. And about not voting Taricus, like I already said, my suspicion is not strong enough. And about the not voting anyone part; I had to hurry to school when I last made a post, so I didn't have time to RV anyone and make a question.
Fine, until
There are IMO couple more suspicious persons here than the rest. First we have Okami for the reasons already mentioned by others. Secondly there is Taricus, for reasons I have already posted. Thirdly and fourthly there are Heliman and Think0028 for perhaps too eager lynchstacking...
Taricus, who would you at this moment to be the two scums?
You start interrogating Taricus. Progress. But you turn right around and say you're suspicious of me, don't bother asking me a question, and fail to provide original reasoning. Finally, you accuse Heliman and Think0028 of behaviour that you, yourself, are encouraging. So, you're supporting my bandwagon, you're condemning its participants, and the only person you're interrogating in all this is Taricus. What's your motive for all this? I'll tell you. You're pushing for what you percieve to be an easy lynch on me, you're covering your tracks by condemning my attackers, and you're continuing to pursue the old easy lynch in case my bandwagon falls through.
Anzki4: Can you reword your question, I don't understand it right now.
Yeah. Sorry about that.
Who would you, at this moment, think to be the two scums?
Better? 
You're not even serious about questioning Taricus.
Unvote Taricus: fair enough.
Jim Groovester: like I said in my previous post, the listing was in random order, so Okami is not my "prime suspect." I honestly did not have one before this:
followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.
Planned lurk? That's what you call knocking off for the night, and returning the next day? I've got another four of those planned for the rest of this week. You're changing your story again, you said that the lurk was a tactical move to get "reactions" and work and sleep played a role in deciding to wait.
Something making you nervous, Heliman?? What make's you so distracted arguing against yourself?
And now you're trying to cover your tracks after Jim called you out on not directly attacking me, by going after Heliman over what? A post that's clearly mangled only due to some quote tagging errors? You're really reaching now.
Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?
Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.
*does a spittake*
What? Two flawless scum? how could you possibly know that?
I don't know that, but I would be very concerned about scum getting one-on-one coaching from him, and it's the worst case scenario I'm assuming in any theories around his being scum.
Okami:
Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?
Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.
So who's the other scum with a flawless towngame?
Powder Miner was my choice up until this post:
Not posting, just privately. Shoulda made it clear. Middle school keeps me from posting most of the day. And I meant before I NOTICED he made the point. Never mind. Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on Tarius because he's still scummy seeming and I'm afraid I'll get accused of bandwagoning if I vote for Okami.
Heliman now. He's already parroting Jim. Presciently, even.
I think this is the third time you've made it clear that you know what we expect of you, yet you continue to fail to deliver.
And there you go with that 'we' business again.
I thought I was clear. Stop that.
You were crystal clear. That was a 'we' in the sense of those of us interrogating him.
It's still light buddying- you putting up an "Us vs Them" situation.
"Us vs Him" would be more appropriate, in this case. I'm quite frustrated with his behaviour. I second the call to
Replace Taricus.
Toaster - You're not voting for anyone, either. In fact, you've been remarkably passive thus far. What do you think of Supercharazad?
Super? After his RV, he tunneled Taricus for a while for being so uncooperative before moving on. His play is reasonable, but I'd like to see him spread his questioning a bit broader.
What do you think of the four votes on you? What is the likelihood that at least one is scum? Think both scum are in on it?
But is he scum?
Taricus is OMGUSing, which is a nulltell like everything else about him. Heliman and Think are following Jim as the Voice of Authority and Reason. Not a scumtell, since he's an IC. Jim's is the only vote that really means anything. At least one is scum? Very likely if I'm wrong about Super and Anzki. Which one is the question. I'm still working out Jim's game. I'd lay even odds that Think or Heliman is scum. Are both? Taricus and Think are the only possibility that springs to mind. Heliman and Jim are a longshot. None of the other combinations work.
Powder Miner - 0.o
What is this? I don't even...
You're just plain confusing me now. Did you forget to take medication or something?
Author
Topic: Beginners' Mafia XXIII [1/7, 3/3]: Evening 3 - GAME OVER & TOWN WIN! (Read 96440 times)