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[Kaos]

What are these? Personality Traits or Attributes?


Personal Traits are supposed to be something innate that doesn't change, while
Attributes do raise and rust depending on the actions of the dwarf,


this logic would lead me to say that both Psychological Trauma & Cave Adaptation are indeed Attributes,


yet the wiki lists Cave Adaptation as a pseudo Personality Trait.....


is there a reason for this or should it be moved to the Attributes page where Psychological Trauma is??

[tolkafox]

The following are not moddable personality traits, and unlike true personality traits, they can vary in response to certain hardcoded stimuli however in other respects they are tracked in a by the game in a related manner.

You can fix that typo O.o But other than that, I think the reason is that cave adaptation doesn't affect anything other than the dwarves thoughts and raises and lowers depending on the presence of the sun. Technically, it's neither a personality trait or attribute but more like a symptom caused by the environment.

In other words, it's classified as such because that's the closest model it works in. It has a standalone complex :/

[Kaos]

Another thing I noticed, all attributes have a value between 0 and 5000, and both Psychological Trauma & Cave Adaptation have ranges from 0 to 100 like the traits do....


It seems they are an in-between....


Besides the wiki doesn't make up its mind either:

This trait increases as dwarves witness death and suffer tragedy. The higher it gets, the harder it is for the dwarf to be affected by negative thoughts, so in several ways, this is a useful if tragic side effect of running a bloody fort. This trait often finds its way into experiencedsoldiers, who might watch friends and comrades die as often as they kill goblins.

and that's in the attribute page when talking about Psychological Trauma

The following are not moddable personality traits, and unlike true personality traits, they can vary in response to certain hardcoded stimuli however in other respects they are tracked in a by the game in a related manner.

You can fix that typo O.o But other than that, I think the reason is that cave adaptation doesn't affect anything other than the dwarves thoughts and raises and lowers depending on the presence of the sun. Technically, it's neither a personality trait or attribute but more like a symptom caused by the environment.

In other words, it's classified as such because that's the closest model it works in. It has a standalone complex :/

What do you mean what typo?? at least the Cave Adaptation is in the traits page and being referred as a trait....




So structurally they are like traits:
same range & values
effects involve thoughts


but they behave like attributes:
can be raised / rusted (cured in the case of cave adaptation, not sure if you could get de-traumatized though)
can be influenced by behaviour (staying inside or outside / witnessing tragedy)


In what section of the thoughts and preferences do they show??

[tolkafox]

The following are not moddable personality traits, and unlike true personality traits, they can vary in response to certain hardcoded stimuli however in other respects they are tracked in a by the game in a related manner.

[Quietust]

Somebody (SethCreiyd) originally put cave adaptation, alcohol withdrawal, and psychological trauma all on the "Personality trait" page and claimed they used the same 0/10/25/40/60/75/90/100 ranges. Once I noticed (after reading this thread), I got out a debugger and determined that the value ranges for alcohol withdrawal and trauma were incorrect (alcohol withdrawal is nothing more than a timer that advances one stage every 3 months, and trauma uses 33/67/100 for the ranges), at which point I moved trauma to the Attribute page (and corrected the value ranges) and removed alcohol withdrawal and cave adaptation entirely. Then somebody else (Bohandas) decided to readd them (with the same blatantly incorrect information), so I left cave adaptation behind (and slapped Verify tags on all of the ranges because I know for a fact that they're wrong - the game itself just uses the values 0/1/2 to denote which message to display) while deleting the others.

It's bad enough when people post information which is unverified but possibly correct, but it's unacceptable when people simply assume "oh, these are displayed in the same place so they must work the same way" when they don't at all.

[tolkafox]

If by assume you mean believe because that was how it was described on the wiki page, then sure I assumed. If people post misleading information and gives a reasoning for it, and other people leave it as such, then the person who reads it and interprets it in the manner that it's described and passes it on can't be blamed.

In general, what you're saying is the wiki can't be trusted on uncommon matters because people can't agree on how things work?