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[IronyOwl]

I propose that all forced population migration vessels and industry transports be given to civilian companies when built. Maintenance for them would be eliminated. They would add to one of two ratings (Population Transport Capacity and Industry Transport Capacity). The ratings and distance would determine how much of each you could transport per turn. (Transport Amount = Rating / Distance. Adjacent colonies would use the full rating). Transportation would occur instantly, even from across the sector with weak engines. Piracy would be more difficult, but still possible with stealthy ships. Obviously blockades would be possible. Colonizing empty worlds would require a military presence.

What would Industrial Transport Capacity do?

I guess the rest sounds alright, though I haven't thought it through terribly much.

[Nirur Torir]

What would Industrial Transport Capacity do?

Transport factories.

[IronyOwl]

Ooh.

My only concern is that that might trivialize individual colony conditions, since "shift stuff from your actual world to the ones you want improved" would be much, much more viable.

[Nirur Torir]

Warning: I'm slightly sleep deprived at the moment. Feel free to ask for clarification if I fail to explain it properly:

I agree, and like the idea of early colonial worlds requiring either lots of money, a focus on factory carrying ships, or even more turns of being useless.

Brainstorm: Let's say that the base cost for Population Transport Capacity is 10,000p per 1M pop capacity. (At base production, a fully developed homeworld would be able to increase it by 100M per turn. Base growth would be ~471M/turn.)

Five turns of full focus, in order to get the infrastructure needed to not 'waste' growth. (Or 2.5 - 4 turns with current tech levels and racial bonuses.)

What then would I set Industrial Transport Capacity to? My initial feeling is 50,000p per factory. This makes it very difficult to raise the rating to usable levels in the early game without a significant amount of research. With level 7 techs and a +2 bonus to production, 10 turns of dedicated homeworld time would be enough to move enough factories to keep steady with base population growth. Of course, anyone able to keep the sort of expansion this'd need up would result in the game ending shortly regardless.

Pricing thoughts? I could easily drop ITC as low as 3x PTC and keep a similar effect, while allowing it to be much more viable in the mid game. As much as I like the idea of early colonies being expensive to start up, you only really get early and early-midgame colonies before border conflicts will arise, and I'm not running the game for myself. Later colonies shouldn't require a dedicated economy to get started.

I'll probably remove colonization/factory transport ships altogether. The techs would remain, and make them cheaper, as any other production specialization tech would.

[Vanigo]

(Actually, I think the correct number of factories is 7679.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Racial Stats:

+2 Research
+2 Production
+2 Loyalty Recovery
+2 Population Growth

-2 Terraforming
-2 Large Structures

Ideal environment: 190


Production
------------------
/* colony number (Size, Quality, Environment, Loyalty, Manufactories, Population):
   Production(p) = manned manufactories x 10 x quality% x loyalty% + Trade received from last turn. See my turn post - It should be the same as their t, slightly further down, from last turn.
   Taxation(c) = mpopulation x loyalty%
        Trade: t = 20% of current production as credits. This will change as more trade routes are added.
   Remember taxation is halved under blockade
                                 */
2 (10,100,190,100,7679.2,7679):
   p = 7679 * 10 * 1(quality) * 1(loyalty) * 1.2(racial) *1.61 (tech)= 148,358p
   c = 7679.2 * 1(loyalty) = 7679c
        t = 0
------------------

Consumption
------------------
/* colony number:
   Ships: p+c = number of ships or part thereof the Ship designation
   Manufactories: p+c = #of manufactories (1 per 100p/c)
   Terraforming: p+c = % improvement (1% per 500p/c * planet size)
   Technology: p+c
   Loyalty: c = % loyalty (1% per mpopulation /10 c)
   Environment upkeep: c = (|Ideal_Environment - Current_Environment|) / 20 * population(in millions)
                              */
2:
   Ships = 0p * 1.1 = 0p
   Manufactories = 55700p = 55700 = 557 manufactories (92658 left)
   Terraforming = 0p * 0.8(racial penalty) =  0 = 0% improvement next turn
   Technology = 92658p+2000c * 1.2 *1.32 = 149938p
   Loyalty = 0
   Environment Upkeep: c = (|190-190|) / 20 * 6744.5 = 0c // Round to hurt yourself.
   Total = 125,951p+5000c
   
------------------

Research
------------------
As the Inquest ships prepared to leave, there was a great burst of last-minute research into ground combat. New equipment would obviously be difficult to deploy once the ships had left, so most of the projects were either designed to finish quickly or focused primarily on tactics and strategy. Still, although improvements in any given piece of equipment were incremental, there were many such improvements made, and the overall impart was considerable. Meanwhile, the great trade ship was finally reaching Kozel'sk, and quite a bit of thought went into the implications of this.

50,000p: Ground Attack
50,000p: Ground Defense
40,000p: Trade income
9938p: Improved marine transports (meaning general all-around improvement, in case that wasn't clear)
------------------

Trade Routes
------------------
None

Treasury
------------------
Last turn balance: 17195c
Colonial Income: 7679c
Consumption: 2000c
Trade income: 0c
Fleet Upkeep: -2700c /* you must not hide this value
Interest: -0c (negative c / 20)
Balance next turn: 20174c
------------------

Growth
------------------
2 (10,100,190,100,7679.2,7679):
   Growth = 7679.2 * (0.06 * 1.21 * 1 - (|190 - 190|) / 2000) = 557.5
   Manufactory = 557
   Terraforming = 0
   Loyalty = 0
   (10,100,190,100,8236.7,8236)

[Vanigo]

Guys?

[IronyOwl]

Yeah sorry. Turn soon.

Also are we officially doing the transport thing or what? I'm probably going to be making a colony-mover-thing of some sort this turn and I'd like to know what it is and does.

[Nirur Torir]

Also are we officially doing the transport thing or what? I'm probably going to be making a colony-mover-thing of some sort this turn and I'd like to know what it is and does.

Nobody's complained, so yes. Use the numbers in my last post. Anyone who already built transports will have them retroactively modified.

[IronyOwl]

Spoiler: Turn (click to show/hide)

Racial Stats:

+2 Research
+2 Production
+2 Special Projects

-2 Loyalty Recovery

175 environment

Movement
------------------
(1,9)
   Fleet 1
      FF Count 1 (15/15)
      CO Transport 3 [L] (3/3)
      CO Transport 4 [L] (3/3)
      CO Transport 5 [L] (3/3)
      CO Transport 6 [L] (3/3)
      Move to (3,7), join up with Fleet 2

(3,7)
   Fleet 2
      FF Count 2 (15/15)
      FF Count 3 (15/15)
      CO Transport 1 [L] (3/3)
      CO Transport 2 [L] (3/3)
      Hold position, join up with Fleet 1
------------------

Production
------------------
1 (10 , 100 , 175 , 100 , 7741 , 7686.4):
   p = 7686 * 10 * 1.2 (rac) * 1.46 (tec) = 134,658
   c = 7686 * 1.33 [tec] * 1(loyalty) = 10,222c
        t = 0

24 (3 , 96 , 276 , 100 , 53 , 55.6):
   p = 53 * 10 * 0.96 (q) * 1 (loy) * 1.2(rac) * 1.46 (tec) = 891
   c = 55 * 1.33 [tec] * 1 (loyalty) = 73c
        t = 0

34 (10 , 102 , 48 , 100 , 16 , 15.5):
   p = 15 * 10 * 1.02 (q) * 1 (loy) * 1.2(rac) * 1.46 (tec) = 268
   c = 15 * 1.33 [tec] * 1 (loyalty) = 19c
        t = 0
------------------

Consumption
------------------
1:
   Ships = 54,546 * 1.1 [tec] = 60,000 = 60,000/10,000 Civilian Transport = 6 Civilian Transport Capacity
   Manufactories = 41,819p * 1.21 [tec] = 50,600 = 506 manufactories
   Terraforming =  0
   Technology = 38,293p * 1.2 (rac) * 1.33 (tec) = 61,115
   Loyalty = 0c
   Environment Upkeep =  0c
   Total = 134,658p

24:
   Ships = 0
   Manufactories = 496p * 1.21 [tec] = 600 = 6 manufactories
   Terraforming = (395p + 6005c) * 1.21 [tec] = 7744 = 5% improvement next turn [1066/1500]
   Technology = 0
   Loyalty = 0
   Environment Upkeep =  101 (env dif) / 20 * 55.6 (pop) = 281c
   Total = 891p + 6,286c

34:
   Ships = 0
   Manufactories = 0
   Terraforming =  (268p + 0c) * 1.21 [tec] = 324 = 0% improvement next turn [456/5000]
   Technology = 0
   Loyalty = 0
   Environment Upkeep =  127 (env dif) / 20 * 15.5 (pop) = 99c
   Total = 268p + 99c
   
------------------

Research
------------------
61,115 total
30,000 Terraforming
31,115 Industrial Expansion
------------------

Trade Routes
------------------
None

Treasury
------------------
Last turn balance: 341c
Colonial Income: 10,314c
Consumption: -6,305c
Trade income: 0c
Fleet Upkeep: -1500c
Interest: 0c
Balance next turn: 2850c
------------------

Growth
------------------
1 (10 , 100 , 175 , 100 , 7741 , 7686.4)
   Growth = ((0.05 * 1.46) [growth rate] - (0 [enviro_away_from_ideal] * .0005) ) * 7686.4 [pop] = 561.1
   Manufactory = 506
   Terraforming = 0
   Loyalty = 0
   (10 , 100 , 175 , 100 , 8247 , 8247.5)

24 (3 , 96 , 276 , 100 , 53 , 55.6)
   Growth = ((0.05 * 1.46) [growth rate] * 1 [loy] - (101 [enviro_away_from_ideal] * .0005) ) * 55.6 [pop] = 1.2
   Manufactory = 6
   Terraforming = 5 [1066/1500]
   Loyalty = 0
   (3 , 96 , 271 , 100 , 59 , 56.

34 (10 , 102 , 48 , 100 , 16 , 15.5)
   Growth = ((0.05 * 1.46) [growth rate] * 1 [loy] - (127 [enviro_away_from_ideal] * .0005) ) * 15.5 [pop] = 0.1
   Manufactory = 0
   Terraforming = 0 [456/5000]
   Loyalty = 0
   (10 , 102 , 48 , 100 , 16 , 15.6)

What does colonization tech do now? I've assumed it multiplies transport (or at least civilian transport) capacity production for now. I've also listed the aforementioned under Ships, since I'm not sure where else it'd go.

[Vanigo]

So that leaves Neyvn.

[Nirur Torir]

What does colonization tech do now? I've assumed it multiplies transport (or at least civilian transport) capacity production for now. I've also listed the aforementioned under Ships, since I'm not sure where else it'd go.

Correct, it now acts as a 'production specialization' style tech. I think I'll make it general for both civilian and industrial transports.
I think there should be a new production category, 'other.'

So that leaves Neyvn.

I shall send a PM.

[Vanigo]

Is this dead, then?

[Neyvn]

No, I just lost the thread, Thanks for posting...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Racial Stats:

Population growth: +1
Land Defense: +1
Research: +2
Small crafts attack: +2
Land Attack: +2

Defensive structures: -2
Large structures: -2

160 environment

Movement
------------------
(5,20)
Fleet 1
-FF Count 1 (12/12)
-FF Count 2 (12/12)
-FF Count 3 (12/12)
Return to 8,20

Fleet 2
(8,20)
-CO Transports 2
Return to 8,20.

- FF Bernard 2
Move and Load to 8,20 - Colonize (-2000000 Pop???)

------------------

Production
------------------
3:
(Size-10, Quality-100, Environment-160, Loyalty-100, Manufactories-7687, Population-7697.4):
Production(p) = 7687* 10 * 1(quality) * 1(loyalty) * 1(racial special)*1.21 (Tech Bonus) = 93021
Taxation(c) = 7697* 1(loyalty) * 1.1 (Tech) = 8466
Trade: t = 0

15:
(Size-10, Quality-76, Environment-50, Loyalty-100, Manufactories-1, Population-2):
Production(p) = 1* 10 * .76(quality) * 1(loyalty) * 1(racial special)*1.21 (Tech Bonus) = 9
Taxation(c) = 1* 1(loyalty) * 1.1 (Tech)= 1
Trade: t = 0
------------------

Consumption
------------------
3:
98414
Ships = 8 Troop Transports - Competent Drop Pods Cost - 40000???
Manufactories = 52200= 522Manufactories...
Terraforming = 0p = 0% improvement,
Technology = 6214 * 1.33 = 8264
Loyalty = 0c
Environment Upkeep: Perfect Terrain
Total = 98414p

15:
Ships = 0
Manufactories = 0 = 0 Manufactories...
Terraforming = 5000c = Um... I forget...% improvement,
Technology = 0
Loyalty = Um.... I forget...
Environment Upkeep: Forget again...
Total = 5000c
------------------

Research
------------------

Population Improvements.
Unlock :: Population Growth I, Population Growth II

Research Improvements.
Unlock :: Research I, Research II, Research III

8264 into Income Improvements - Better Economy Systems
Unlocks :: Taxation I

Production Improvements
Unlocks :: Production Improvements I,Production Improvements II

Deception Research
Unlocks :: Cloaking I researched

Strikecraft Research
Unlocks :: Strike Craft Chassis, Strike Craft Engines I

10000 into Colonization Frigate Research
Unlocks :: Frigate Chassis, Colonization I

Transport Class Vessel Enhancements
Unlocks :: Drop Pod Transports

------------------

Trade Routes
------------------
None

Treasury
------------------
Last turn balance: +873c
Colonial Income: 8466+1 = 8467c
Consumption: -5000c
Trade income: 0c
Fleet Upkeep: This has changed right. Gah
Interest: 0
Balance next turn: +873c
------------------

Growth
------------------
3:
(Size::10, Quality::100, Environment::160, Loyalty::100, Manufactories::7687, Population::7697.4)
Growth = 7697.4*0.055 - ((160-160) * 0.0005) * 1.21 (Tech) = 512.2
Manufactory = 522
Terraforming = 160
Loyalty = 0
(10,100,160,100,8209,8209.6)

15:
(Size::1, Quality::76, Environment-50, Loyalty-100, Manufactories-1, Population-2)
Growth = 2*0.055 - ((50-160) * 0.0005) * 1.21 (Tech) = 2.2
Manufactory = 1
Terraforming = 160
Loyalty = 0
(1,76,50,100,1,2.2)

Ok. I forget alot of things here... GAH...
Brain not working...

How do I manage 15 now??!?!?

[Nirur Torir]

Neyvn:
You now have 4 PTC (Population Transport Capacity), which is enough to move 4 million people/turn to your colony. Your FF Bernards have been given to the civilian sector, and no longer cost upkeep.
That terraforming comes out to +10 enviro.
Newly recolonized planets will start at 50% loyalty, I think. Being sent off to repopulate a ruined planet isn't particularly pleasant.
Environmental upkeep is 1 per person per 20 points of imperfect environment. 11 here.


A note: Transported population and industry does nothing on its transport turn, and will not grow, cost upkeep, or be taxed, as everyone's in cryosleep.
Please track PTC and ITC in the racial stats section for convenience.
Please use an additional line in the 'growth' section for transported population and factories, both for the planet losing them and the planet gaining them. If you're not certain, ask.

Turn tomorrow.

[Vanigo]

That growth on planet 15 can't possibly be correct. By my math it should be
2*(.55*1.21 - 110/2000) = 0.01
which rounds down to 0 growth.