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More tech tree!

36 (26.1%)

More ritual tree!

8 (5.8%)

More lore!

12 (8.7%)

More mythical weapons/armor!

22 (15.9%)

Plagues!

28 (20.3%)

More secrets!

21 (15.2%)

More mechanical constructs!

11 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 137

[Jilladilla]

Perhaps to make them more expensive you could bump up the quality of the metal? Instead of iron and copper, use steel and orichalcum... that would make them very expensive indeed.

but iron is used for the main chassis of it, if we replaced iron with steel, yes it would be more expensive but it would be that much more powerful!

besides, we might see a disproportionately large amounts of iron needed, because surely something this precise and delicate would warrent several messups

This has a fair number of dependencies, but most of it's there...  And they kick sickening amounts of ass.  I put 8 of them in arena and then put them up against three aatxes (I tend to use the aatxe as a benchmark for strength) and they killed all three within seconds - the only injury sustained being one of them losing a leg in the process.  Looks like these little guys are going to be pretty expensive...  You'll have to construct the frame and the control core to make one, and I'm currently deciding on what those will require.  Obviously, iron and copper will be involved.

What I found so suprising (read: amusing) was that their size is not very big...  roughly 11% of a dwarf's adult size, and yet they still swarmed and easily defeated a creature over twenty times larger.  If this is any indication, future mechanical constructs are going to be a terrifying thing indeed.

wow... just wow..... i just got a picture of a kobold storming a dwarven fort in a (stolen) giant mech of doom...

[Undeadlord]

Maybe keep the material copper to keep it weak? Think that iron and steel are too rigid, only copper has the flexibility to make segmented legs and such. Or some other idea to limit the fact you don't want steel spiders.

[DustanH]

or you could have varieties if you like.  Use mithril if you want extremely good and expensive ones or copper for less tough ones but more economical.

[Jilladilla]

Maybe keep the material copper to keep it weak? Think that iron and steel are too rigid, only copper has the flexibility to make segmented legs and such. Or some other idea to limit the fact you don't want steel spiders.

if the entire thing was copper... well how would the electrical components work? the entire thing would be one large awkwardly shaped wire

[Pan]

I tend to use the aatxe as a benchmark for strength

Obviously not because they are the first units on the list in arena mode.

To make constructs expensive, how about requiring lots of orihalcum? I mean, dwarves producing such things is quite unbelievable. I imagine they would need some magical material to aid in that. I mean, creating golems and such in games usually required some form of magic. To be pure engineering... hell, I think we modern day humans are just only starting such things.

So make all contructs require a steady amount of orihalcum. Each tier up will require more and more. Copper, iron and steel are all easy as hell to get once you get the right couple of workshops and natural raw materials up. Orihalcum is hard to get and can therefore turn mechanical contructs expensive - more than any amount of iron, copper or steel ever will.

So we could have the ability to make these spider droids out of mithril, iron, steel or copper. But each reaction not only takes their namesake metal, but also the same amount of orihalcum. Plus the core and frame and stuff as well, of course.

[Stirk]

To make constructs expensive, how about requiring lots of orihalcum? I mean, dwarves producing such things is quite unbelievable. I imagine they would need some magical material to aid in that. I mean, creating golems and such in games usually required some form of magic. To be pure engineering... hell, I think we modern day humans are just only starting such things.

Be fair to the dwarves. They have created force fields they wear on their back, created cannons that fire lava, and have rail guns. They are not exactly medieval technology, and the "Technology" that they have is mostly alchemical and steampunk. I think our dwarves can handle making steampunk spiders.

As for making them more expensive, I suggest adding lustrem to make them for fuel. Unless that is already in there...

if the entire thing was copper... well how would the electrical components work? the entire thing would be one large awkwardly shaped wire

I assume they don't have bear wire? It would work like any other metal box would. It isn't like steel or iron don't conduct electricity...

[fire1666]

Ive tryed everything now.....
i'v used the pre installed LFR with dwarf therapist but it wont work, so what do i do?
should i just wait tilll next update?

[vorpal+5]

As a newbie LFR player, please be sure to keep the documentation up to date on the new features, or they will only be used by a few grognards players who follow the mod everyday. 


Will the tech tree also allows to get elixirs that repair body parts or regrow them?   

[fire1666]

Will the tech tree also allows to get elixirs that repair body parts or regrow them?   

that sounds more like a relegion thingy but very rare   
come to think of it that would be so awesome if you did that

[Pan]

So this all just blew my mind. I'm sorry for asking such a pressuring question, but what time do you estimate these features to be completed and ready to release? (complete testing is done, of course, by us)

I need this date to fake my own death so I can devote my time entirely to DF LFR. (and AGoT season 2, but that's another story)

[Demiurge]

Several tiers of materials for constructs could be implemented. You could have layers of production so you would create the chasis in the forge from iron, steel or whatever and create the fine mechanisms elsewhere. Mechanisms of copper, heart of gold, crystal lenses etc. There's tons of potential for creating the many components needed to complete a final automaton with the payoff being the automaton is stronger.

Additionally you could have its abilities based on the materials of the components. A bronze mechanism would make it faster than a copper mechanism and a lens made from rarer gems would increase its skills in combat.

Hell I would love for there to be many tiers of golems. For example when starting out in a new area I would create a wooden golem and imbue it with life through a ritual and the only components needed would be wood, two gems for the eyes and successful prayer at the altar (20% success, components lost on failure). Same with stone golems but with slightly higher material costs. That way I could have quick and expendable defences up in the first year with proper preperation.

Edit: For metal golems, how about balancing their higher strength with vulnerable joints? So a strike to the arms or legs would have a chance to shatter the knee or elbow or sever it outright if the golem is not a top tier or war grade production.

Edit2: The best golems should be artifacts! So a smith claims a golem forge and needs components made from very specific materials. Also the only way to obtain mithril or better golems!

Edit3: Here's what I imagine a steel golem would require.

One heart of gold, created in the temple from a gold bar and one fuel.
Three advanced bronze mechanisms, created at the tier 2 mechanics workshop.
Two sapphire lenses, created in the jewellers workshop.
One Steel chasis, forged in the metalsmiths forge from 10 steel bars and the three mechanisms.
One copper dynamo, created at the tier 2 mechanics workshop.
One ectoplasmic remnant
One golem core, created from the heart of gold and the ectoplasmic remnant in the golem forge.

That's just my imagined scenario though

[Pan]

Several tiers of materials for constructs could be implemented. You could have layers of production so you would create the chasis in the forge from iron, steel or whatever and create the fine mechanisms elsewhere. Mechanisms of copper, heart of gold, crystal lenses etc. There's tons of potential for creating the many components needed to complete a final automaton with the payoff being the automaton is stronger.

Additionally you could have its abilities based on the materials of the components. A bronze mechanism would make it faster than a copper mechanism and a lens made from rarer gems would increase its skills in combat.

Hell I would love for there to be many tiers of golems. For example when starting out in a new area I would create a wooden golem and imbue it with life through a ritual and the only components needed would be wood, two gems for the eyes and successful prayer at the altar (20% success, components lost on failure). Same with stone golems but with slightly higher material costs. That way I could have quick and expendable defences up in the first year with proper preperation.

Edit: For metal golems, how about balancing their higher strength with vulnerable joints? So a strike to the arms or legs would have a chance to shatter the knee or elbow or sever it outright if the golem is not a top tier or war grade production.

Edit2: The best golems should be artifacts! So a smith claims a golem forge and needs components made from very specific materials. Also the only way to obtain mithril or better golems!

Edit3: Here's what I imagine a steel golem would require.

One heart of gold, created in the temple from a gold bar and one fuel.
Three advanced bronze mechanisms, created at the tier 2 mechanics workshop.
Two sapphire lenses, created in the jewellers workshop.
One Steel chasis, forged in the metalsmiths forge from 10 steel bars and the three mechanisms.
One copper dynamo, created at the tier 2 mechanics workshop.
One ectoplasmic remnant
One golem core, created from the heart of gold and the ectoplasmic remnant in the golem forge.

That's just my imagined scenario though

Not bad ideas at all. Ectoplasmic remnant is a great idea. You get it from tech tree. It's hard to get. It's limited. It's got a good story behind it (a soul sort of thing, no? Ritual with that frees a banshee or something?).

[Demiurge]

Basically I imagine that tier 3 golems made of steel will be very strong against most enemies like bog trolls or goblin invasions. But against those with advanced weapons their delicate inner mechanisms will be vulnerable to piercing weapons. For example any damage to its core, located in the chest, would kill it outright and it would also be vulnerable at the joints. But a tier 5 golem that uses a damascus sentinel core would be able to function for much longer, even with damaged parts.

[narhiril]

Ive tryed everything now.....
i'v used the pre installed LFR with dwarf therapist but it wont work, so what do i do?
should i just wait tilll next update?

Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)

I'm afraid I can't do anything to fix it if I can't replicate the problem.

As a newbie LFR player, please be sure to keep the documentation up to date on the new features, or they will only be used by a few grognards players who follow the mod everyday. 


Will the tech tree also allows to get elixirs that repair body parts or regrow them?   

I definitely try, and I feel like I've done a pretty decent job thus far.  If there is any aspect of the documentation that you find insufficient, please be sure to let me know.

Additionally you could have its abilities based on the materials of the components. A bronze mechanism would make it faster than a copper mechanism and a lens made from rarer gems would increase its skills in combat.

...This would require a different creature (or at least a different caste) for every possible permutation of gems, mechanisms, metals, and so on.  I'd finish that by the time DF hit 1.0, if I was lucky.

That being said, a more limited system of material and component advances is something I plan to do. 

Not bad ideas at all. Ectoplasmic remnant is a great idea. You get it from tech tree. It's hard to get. It's limited. It's got a good story behind it (a soul sort of thing, no? Ritual with that frees a banshee or something?).

I'm liking that component. 

I tend to use the aatxe as a benchmark for strength

Obviously not because they are the first units on the list in arena mode.

To make constructs expensive, how about requiring lots of orihalcum? I mean, dwarves producing such things is quite unbelievable. I imagine they would need some magical material to aid in that. I mean, creating golems and such in games usually required some form of magic. To be pure engineering... hell, I think we modern day humans are just only starting such things.

So make all contructs require a steady amount of orihalcum. Each tier up will require more and more. Copper, iron and steel are all easy as hell to get once you get the right couple of workshops and natural raw materials up. Orihalcum is hard to get and can therefore turn mechanical contructs expensive - more than any amount of iron, copper or steel ever will.

So we could have the ability to make these spider droids out of mithril, iron, steel or copper. But each reaction not only takes their namesake metal, but also the same amount of orihalcum. Plus the core and frame and stuff as well, of course.

Orichalcum will probably be involved.  Lustrum definitely will.  Also, touche.

Will the tech tree also allows to get elixirs that repair body parts or regrow them?   

that sounds more like a relegion thingy but very rare   
come to think of it that would be so awesome if you did that

Can do, will do.

So this all just blew my mind. I'm sorry for asking such a pressuring question, but what time do you estimate these features to be completed and ready to release? (complete testing is done, of course, by us)

I need this date to fake my own death so I can devote my time entirely to DF LFR. (and AGoT season 2, but that's another story)

It's probably going to come in waves.  The next release, hopefully, will have the shedim fully implemented and the temple of the orphan ready to go.  Depending on how that tests, I might be able to squeeze in the initial framework and a few reactions for tech tier four.  I know that you guys want to do the testing on your own, but I really need to give it a preliminary screening.  Otherwise you get issues like sieges committing suicide because their attack interaction is missing a usage hint, and other less-than-fun things that the errorlog won't catch.  I've learned from experience here that "completed" and "ready to release" are very different things.

That being said, if anyone feels like giving me a hand in testing, I certainly won't refuse it.  Like, I need someone to give me some feedback on this, since I'm testing so many things that I can't devote the kind of time needed to thoroughly test an entity file beyond "does it spawn or not."

[Demiurge]

Additionally you could have its abilities based on the materials of the components. A bronze mechanism would make it faster than a copper mechanism and a lens made from rarer gems would increase its skills in combat.

...This would require a different creature (or at least a different caste) for every possible permutation of gems, mechanisms, metals, and so on.  I'd finish that by the time DF hit 1.0, if I was lucky.

That being said, a more limited system of material and component advances is something I plan to do. 

Ouch, yeah I can see that not being feasible. Still this is a great mod, I'm moving between this and masterwork right now (I use masterwork on my laptop since it runs much faster) but with all the new stuff being added I'm definitely playing LFR the most.

Do you have any plans for the new minecarts and physics that Toady is adding? Does it add possibilities for things you hadn't been able to implement before?