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What would you most like to see next from LFR?

More tech tree!
- 36 (26.1%)
More ritual tree!
- 8 (5.8%)
More lore!
- 12 (8.7%)
More mythical weapons/armor!
- 22 (15.9%)
Plagues!
- 28 (20.3%)
More secrets!
- 21 (15.2%)
More mechanical constructs!
- 11 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 137


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Author Topic: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.21a *=*=* [DF 0.34.11]  (Read 403134 times)

nukularpower

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1110 on: December 28, 2011, 09:11:11 pm »

Quick question:  Anyone know what pile option ethereal spheres are under?  I looked but couldn't find them.. and I wanna know if one actually appears from my alc lab ;)
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trees

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1111 on: December 28, 2011, 09:14:34 pm »

They should appear under "toys," I think, just as "spheres."
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1112 on: December 28, 2011, 09:15:46 pm »

They should appear under "toys," I think.

Yeah, they're under toys (they get too easily lost if I make them tools).

nukularpower

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1113 on: December 29, 2011, 01:10:06 am »

Ok, found em, thanks.  Now that I have some though, what exactly do you do with them?  I processed them at a smelter into "processed ethereal spheres", but I can't find anything that will let me make ethereal bars (which the forges say they need to make weapons out of it.)  Is that something you have to unlock?

Thanks for taking the time to answer! :)
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1114 on: December 29, 2011, 01:51:59 am »

Ok, found em, thanks.  Now that I have some though, what exactly do you do with them?  I processed them at a smelter into "processed ethereal spheres", but I can't find anything that will let me make ethereal bars (which the forges say they need to make weapons out of it.)  Is that something you have to unlock?

Thanks for taking the time to answer! :)

Melt them.  The easiest way to do that is to open your stocks screen, find "ethereal spheres (processed)," hit "m," then queue up "melt a metal object" at a smelter.  Because of the way melting works, you'll get the best results if you only queue up this reaction at one smelter.  Ethereal spheres melt down to 1/5th of an ether bar, so a batch of 10 from an alchemy experiment will net you two bars.  They can't be used for armor, so don't let anything but a moody dwarf or a highly skilled weaponsmith touch them.  Ethereal weapons are roughly equivalent to voidshard in strength, but are much lighter - they make fantastic edged weapons.


---

If you're curious why all of these steps are necessary, it's purely technical.  The spheres are produced as toys to make them easy to find, but toys do not accept the [UNIMPROVABLE] token, which means they have quality modifiers - and, if you have a savant or expert alchemist, this means that masterwork spheres pop up from time to time.  Melting a masterwork item causes a severe negative thought (and sometimes a tantrum spiral), but using them up in a custom reaction does not, so the spheres are "processed" into another toy in a reaction that does not have an associated skill, so there is no chance of them being of masterwork quality after that, and they are safe to melt down.

Entities do weird things with custom (raw-defined) reactions that enables them to produce the products during worldgen and from caravans without ever meeting the reaction's requirements.  For things like special tools, toys, and weapons, this isn't a problem because an entity will not sell you those unless it is explicitly permitted in their entity file, but for ether bars (because they're bars), there is no permission check.  These spheres, therefore, need to be melted at the smelter (instead of used in another custom reaction) because making a custom reaction for them would allow you to request them from the dwarven caravan and would cause caravan guards to start carrying around ethereal weapons, which kind of breaks things.  I discovered most of this the hard way.


TL;DR version: It's done this way because this is currently the only way I could get their accessibility right where I wanted it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 02:09:59 am by narhiril »
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nukularpower

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1115 on: December 29, 2011, 04:55:09 pm »

Ok, thanks, got that.  One more question:  How many orichalcum bars does it take to enable the first precision tools build at the alchemists?  I've got 10, but it's still red when I try to make them.  (trying at a magma alc shop, if that matters)  edit again: not sure how many it was, but got it fnally :)

Edit:  Also, smelting Iovite at a magma smelter still takes fuel.  Not sure if intentional.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 06:18:54 pm by nukularpower »
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GaxkangtheUnbound

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1116 on: December 29, 2011, 05:59:52 pm »

Edit:  Also, smelting Iovite at a magma smelter still takes fuel.  Not sure if intentional.
It's intentional. The normal reaction takes 2 fuel.
Ok, thanks, got that.  One more question:  How many orichalcum bars does it take to enable the first precision tools build at the alchemists?  I've got 10, but it's still red when I try to make them.  (trying at a magma alc shop, if that matters)
Are you sure your alchemist can reach the bars? If he can, try making a non-magma alchemist shop, and fabricate them there.
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Pan

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1117 on: December 29, 2011, 10:54:48 pm »

The only thing I haven't gotten around to is the voidwalker creature revamp, but that will be easy to test on its own once it's done.  Oh, and that new plant that's supposed to show up under unusual circumstances.  I'll save that for tomorrow.

Voidwalker revamp? What's that?
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Meph

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1118 on: December 29, 2011, 11:02:28 pm »

Voidwalkers are a very powerful high-end race in this mod. Revamp just means that he will change some things about them... :)
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nukularpower

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1119 on: December 29, 2011, 11:37:42 pm »

Edit:  Also, smelting Iovite at a magma smelter still takes fuel.  Not sure if intentional.
It's intentional. The normal reaction takes 2 fuel.
Ok, thanks, got that.  One more question:  How many orichalcum bars does it take to enable the first precision tools build at the alchemists?  I've got 10, but it's still red when I try to make them.  (trying at a magma alc shop, if that matters)
Are you sure your alchemist can reach the bars? If he can, try making a non-magma alchemist shop, and fabricate them there.

Yeah, it worked in the normal shop.  I made more bars too, so dunno if that had anything to do with it.

lasssst question:  Is there a labor associated with using training dummies?  Just wondering cuz my jewelcrafter came up and started running on the dodging course even though she is blocked via profile O.o
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1120 on: December 30, 2011, 12:57:11 am »


Yeah, it worked in the normal shop.  I made more bars too, so dunno if that had anything to do with it.

lasssst question:  Is there a labor associated with using training dummies?  Just wondering cuz my jewelcrafter came up and started running on the dodging course even though she is blocked via profile O.o

I have never encountered any problems with the workshop profiles as long as I had a standing manager.  Check that you have a manager and that his or her requirements are met.

Voidwalkers are a very powerful high-end race in this mod. Revamp just means that she will change some things about them... :)


From a combat balance standpoint, you won't see any significant changes.  I'm just going in and adding some more detail to the body to better reflect their pseudo-insectoid design.  This is just to fix a few minor lore and art-related inconsistencies (i.e. broken bones in their wings, which shouldn't even have bones).

Pan

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1121 on: December 30, 2011, 01:08:49 am »

My dwarves tend to have a tendency to hack off their wings instead of hitting it where it hurts when it comes to duking it out with voidwalkers.

Regarding voidwalkers, it appears their void projectors can easily be countered by dwarves who are highly skilled at shield usage. If only there were some way to train the shield skill...
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nukularpower

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1122 on: December 30, 2011, 08:59:00 pm »

Thanks for answering all my questions before. The mod is really fun, and it does add alot!  Looking forward to seeing the ritual tree fleshed out.

A small suggestion:  Would it be possible to code "events" (ie pauses) for when one of the very low chance reactions happens at the alc shop?  I'm especially thinking of ethereal spheres appearing.  There is really no way to know when you get these things, other than watching your dwarves as they do the reactions - which is really not feasible when both of them require 10 of their respective materials, which makes a lot of running back and forth.

Anyways, great mod and thanks for makin it!

One more quick question though:  any hint as to how you get the thing to unlock the Weapons Concept Laboratory? ^ ^

edit: nevermind the question, I seem to have unlocked it somehow, presumably through the document research thing... again @ that suggestion, though I don't know if it's even possible :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 01:02:56 am by nukularpower »
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Pan

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1123 on: December 30, 2011, 10:33:37 pm »

Narhiril, the shrines and temples are probably not going to get any easier to remember. Maybe you could make it a little more user friendly by making an individual file separate from the Manual and Lore file file that is all about the ritual tech tree? That's what I've done for myself, since I've grown a little tired of constantly checking the M&L file, then scrolling all the way down, locating the ritual tech tree, and seeing what the difference is between the 'Ritual of Prosperity' and 'Ritual of Nature'. After all, the ritual tech tree is a little less straight forward than the mechanical one, where you just sort of wait for the self explanatory stuff to appear. ('A tablet about a more efficient javelin thrower' 'An experimental thingy about using lustrum for fuel' is easy to understand, whereas a ritual of something needs some checking up.

I've been seeing way too many special ops pigeon. Perhaps you could tone that down a little? First time is funny. Afterwards, I just feel its a little out of the DF experience.

I wonder, how does advanced mechanical training dummies work? Anyone can just make a training dummy without some advanced mechanics, so this is obviously different. I'm currently doing a succession fort on this, and I may have to write about this should I use it.

Are nephilim meant to come so often? They come every season. Are they meant to be a often trading race? Perhaps they are powerful due to the importance they put on trade? Anyway, just something I've thought of while playing. Maybe reference this in their lore files?

Bog trolls are really, really powerful in Legends, and my currently civ is being slaughtered by their attacks. A new dwarven general is elected almost yearly after the last one gets stuck on a spike by bog trolls during an offensive or defensive.
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SirAaronIII

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.14e
« Reply #1124 on: December 30, 2011, 10:50:24 pm »

1. I would be in favor of this.
2. Agreed. I think I see more specops ones than regular actually. The point is they're very common.
3. It might be a story thing with the advanced mechanisms making the dummy less of a "stand around and get hit" thing and more of a "fighting back" type of deal. Or maybe it's just balance reasons.
4. They were a thing to help break sieges, once, but obviously it's a bit different now.
5. It has to do with their comparative size, probably.
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