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More tech tree!

36 (26.1%)

More ritual tree!

8 (5.8%)

More lore!

12 (8.7%)

More mythical weapons/armor!

22 (15.9%)

Plagues!

28 (20.3%)

More secrets!

21 (15.2%)

More mechanical constructs!

11 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 137

[Pan]

True.

[narhiril]

First of all, MERRY CHRISTMAS to anyone who might be around today, and I hope everyone stays safe and happy.

Second of all, I've finished most of the legwork for the prototype workbench and reactions.  Bayonets (I checked the spelling, turns out I've been spelling it wrong lol, but that's resolved now) will be craftable at a forge from any weapons-grade metal from the get-go, but you won't be able to use them for much until you get the prototype workbench - the reason for this is that making it a permitted tool saved me having to write a new reaction for each bayonet type.

Even with this, however, the number of reactions in this update is extremely numerous - so much so that I'm making another new building, the "scientific library," just to handle the logistics for how new weapon upgrades are unlocked and processed.  This building will also be able to transcribe the "unlock" items from the earlier tiers - so in case you got unlucky and somehow missed a technology or two before this point, you can unlock them through this tier three building.  The scientific library will require a few tables, cabinets, chairs, and a "file sorting algorithm," which can be researched at the advanced alchemy lab, in order to ensure that this building cannot be built before tier three.

Right now, I'm testing it with placeholder workshop art.  The advancements for the weapons require a laundry list of assorted items, which get progressively harder to come by as you get further in.  While I'm happy with that sort of investment-based staggering, I'm not sure everyone will be happy with the resources required, which can get a bit...  absurd.  Of course, this is dwarven !!SCIENCE!!, so the idea is that a lot of embellishments and nonsense goes into every experiment, but I'm not sure how everyone else is feeling about that.

Here's an example reaction for you guys to judge.

Spoiler: reaction (click to show/hide)

[REACTION:UPGRADE_TOME_MAGDART_TWO]
[NAME:research potential magnetic dart launcher upgrades]
[BUILDING:ADV_ALCHEMY_LAB_LFR:CUSTOM_R]
[REAGENT:A:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MAG_DART_ONE:NONE:NONE][PRESERVE_REAGENT][CAN_USE_ARTIFACT]
[REAGENT:B:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MAGDART_TOME_ONE:NONE:NONE][PRESERVE_REAGENT][CAN_USE_ARTIFACT]
[REAGENT:C:2:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_BAYONET_LFR:INORGANIC:COPPER]
[REAGENT:D:15:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_ADVMECH_LFR:NONE:NONE]
[REAGENT:E:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_SLAG_RECYCLER:NONE:NONE]
[REAGENT:F:1:SKIN_TANNED:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[REAGENT:G:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_NATURE_SHRINE_COMP:NONE:NONE]
[REAGENT:H:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_VICTORY_SHRINE_COMP:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:65:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MAGDART_TOME_TWO:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:F:NONE]
[SKILL:ALCHEMY]

This is the "research" reaction for the bayonet dart launcher, which is the first available upgrade (of two) to the magnetic dart launcher.  It requires 15 advanced mechanisms, 2 copper bayonets, 1 efficient casting device, 1 tanned hide, 1 magnetic dart launcher (preserved), the tome that unlocks the magnetic dart launcher (also preserved), 1 overgrown pedestal, and 1 silver candelabra.  Percent chance of success is 65 - not a guarantee, but high enough that it shouldn't ever take more than a few tries to get it.  Thoughts?

[trees]

I think it being a heavier resource sink isn't too much of a big deal, as long as there are some weird potential unexpected results like the cheese thing you mentioned a while back, hehe. Just a thing to keep in mind, though - waiting for an alchemist to grab 23 different pieces before they even begin the research could take quite a long time. I'm sure that's probably partially intentional and can be relieved with efficient stockpiling, but yeah.

Also, a passing thought about the throwing axes bit you mentioned a few pages back - would it be reasonable for the "launcher" to just be another axe instead of a glove? It would make them a lot more interesting to use as hybrid soldiers instead of just archers, I think, and the idea of a dwarf chucking their last axe in to a crowd of bog trolls with nothing to defend themselves with is a tad silly, although I suppose it's fitting of their average intelligence.

[Pan]

Heavy resource investment with clear objective in mind would be my choice.

I am currently starting a military fortress, and I'm wondering - what weapons work best against bog trolls, Narhiril? Ranged is obviously good, but I would like an opinion regarding melee weapons. Edged weapons usually sever limbs, allowing for a quick advantage. Piercing and blunt deals a lot of pain, but not as much as a severed limb. Blunt is armor piercing. By that logic (which I sort of put together with DF experience. I hope I'm right), edged weapons should be the way to go against bog trolls, who have inferior armor. However, I did not take the bog trolls size into account, and it may not be that easy to slice their limbs off, and it may be preferable to use spears to hit their organs, causing pain, instead. Therefore, should I use spears or axes against bog trolls?

tl;dr Should I use piercing weapons against bog trolls, or edged?

[Meph]

Bigger creatures are usually more resistant to blunt weapons. Therefore: Spears to pierce organs and let the enemy pass out more quickly. Axes to sever limbs.

[narhiril]

Bog trolls are very large and difficult to overcome with pain.  Anything that kills them quickly is effective, but cutting their limbs off is probably the best way to minimize casualties if you're fighting them man for man.  Broadhead javelins were designed to kill bog trolls, as bog trolls do not have any ranged units.

I'm testing the advanced alchemy lab for the first time today (outside of firing up the game and resolving error log problems), so I don't know what I'll find.  Chances are pretty high that I'll need to fix some things or rebalance some others, but I've managed to get the entire thing into at least a playable state.  Six new buildings, 77 new reactions, eight new weapon types (as part of the "upgrade weapons" bit), one new shield, five new tools, a new caste of zinger, dwarven glassmaker savants, optimization tweaks, a few easter eggs, and two new and very unusual types of cheese. 

The only thing I haven't gotten around to is the voidwalker creature revamp, but that will be easy to test on its own once it's done.  Oh, and that new plant that's supposed to show up under unusual circumstances.  I'll save that for tomorrow.

[Pan]

I probably shouldn't have been speaking of things in the future when the present is so unstable. Right after I posted what I posted, 5 thieves (1 master thief among them) came out in quick succession past the empty cage traps, slashed the guard dog and ankylosaur to pieces, stabbed 4 of the soldiers who charged them (who bled out shortly after) and started a tantrum spiral. The soldiers were armed with training weapons since I hadn't gotten orihalcum bars from my non existant metalworks and wanted the soldiers to be sparring early for experience.

  That's a lot of stuff to be added... The new update seems to have as much content as a starting mod... Must take long to test everything out. Just a thought, but perhaps you might like to upload a 'test fortress' save file for some of us to help test all the new reactions?

[nukularpower]

Hello,

I seem to be encountering a bug with this mod.  When trying to place up/down stairs, up stairs, or up ramps via designation, the designation box just disappears with nothing happening.  When trying to build any of those via uild, the symbol appears, the dwarves run stone to it.. and nothing happens.  Down stairs and etc, however, work fine.

This is with the preisntalled Ironhand version.  It is easy to verify - I reproduced it by dl'ing it anew and trying a quick world just to test it, and it did happen again.  Does anyone know if this happens with the raw version?  Or is there any easy way to fix this on the install I have?  Found a really nice embark I was really looking forward to playing

edit: nm, figured it out   ^ ^

[NobodyPro]

Hello,

I seem to be encountering a bug with this mod.  When trying to place up/down stairs, up stairs, or up ramps via designation, the designation box just disappears with nothing happening.  When trying to build any of those via uild, the symbol appears, the dwarves run stone to it.. and nothing happens.  Down stairs and etc, however, work fine.

This is with the preisntalled Ironhand version.  It is easy to verify - I reproduced it by dl'ing it anew and trying a quick world just to test it, and it did happen again.  Does anyone know if this happens with the raw version?  Or is there any easy way to fix this on the install I have?  Found a really nice embark I was really looking forward to playing

This is a raw mod and should not effect hard-coded features like stairs or ramps.

[nukularpower]

Nevermind.. me being stupid >.>

[GaxkangtheUnbound]

Might I suggest dwarven knockout gas as a high-tier weapon? Have a process that takes a large amount of a single plant(voracious maws, maybe?) and something else and turn it into a boulder of knockout gas. Apply magma, and you have a horde of unconscious goblins, ready to be experimented on!

[narhiril]

Might I suggest dwarven knockout gas as a high-tier weapon? Have a process that takes a large amount of a single plant(voracious maws, maybe?) and something else and turn it into a boulder of knockout gas. Apply magma, and you have a horde of unconscious goblins, ready to be experimented on!

This is an interesting idea, especially for capturing TRAPAVOID creatures.  Conceivably, you put one of these boulders on a hatch cover or retractable bridge, then drop it into the magma below.  In close proximity to cage traps and, if done with the correct timing, this could be a pretty awesome idea, though the range is a bit limited (which could be partially helped by using more than one drop).

Nevertheless, I think this is a very interesting potential advancement.  I'll have to play around a bit with syndromes to get it to work the way its supposed to (I've had trouble with CE_UNCONSCIOUSNESS in the past causing suffocation), but when I get it working, I'll be sure to credit you.

One of the new advanced alchemy reactions is designed to more reliably get voracious maws onto the map, so that seems like a good requirement as well.

[GaxkangtheUnbound]

I may have to perform !!SCIENCE!! with severity of the unconsciousness syndrome, as to see how it affects various sizes of creatures.

[trees]

I've actually very recently been working on something that uses a SEV:500 unconsciousness syndrome - in all of my testing of it on dwarves, it hasn't ever caused suffocation. I think undirected paralysis is known for causing suffocation, though.

Biological weapons would be very interesting things to use, although actually applying them becomes an issue.

[narhiril]

I've actually very recently been working on something that uses a SEV:500 unconsciousness syndrome - in all of my testing of it on dwarves, it hasn't ever caused suffocation. I think undirected paralysis is known for causing suffocation, though.

Biological weapons would be very interesting things to use, although actually applying them becomes an issue.

Oh, you're right, I have my syndromes mixed up.  I've had problems with paralysis causing suffocation and I've had problems with unconsciousness never wearing off.  But the last time I tested something like that was eons ago, so I'll have to have another look at it.

Pan's post reminds me that I need to go ahead and move LFR-SC to a more permanent download location to free up the test file location.  I guess now's as good a time as ever.  Then I can get a test world put up for anyone who wants to play around with some unreleased content.


EDIT:

LFR-SC (current version = 0.14e) can now be found at this location.

LFR v0.15a (beta 3) test save can now be found at the test raws location - which, for your convenience, is located here.