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What would you most like to see next from LFR?

More tech tree!
- 36 (26.1%)
More ritual tree!
- 8 (5.8%)
More lore!
- 12 (8.7%)
More mythical weapons/armor!
- 22 (15.9%)
Plagues!
- 28 (20.3%)
More secrets!
- 21 (15.2%)
More mechanical constructs!
- 11 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 137


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Author Topic: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.21a *=*=* [DF 0.34.11]  (Read 405233 times)

narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12a
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2011, 05:06:41 pm »

Just got sieged by bog trolls in year 2 with only 17 population O_O according to raws shouldnt they start sieging from 80 population like goblins ?

This seems to be an unwanted side effect of removing the [CAN_SPEAK] token.  Unfortunately, it looks like I'm not going to be able to get inter-faction fighting (outside of random wars) and siege triggers to work properly at the same time with the current tool set.  Since this is a much larger hurdle for a new fortress, I'll be putting the [CAN_SPEAK] tags back in.  You can fix this problem yourself by adding [CAN_SPEAK] to creature_bog and creature_void (you will probably need to gen a new world for this to take effect).  I am not in a position where I am able to upload a new version right now, but I will get this re-packaged and uploaded as soon as possible.

EDIT (5:30pm central US): I'm home now, expect a new version to be uploaded within the hour.  This will include the few necessary bug fixes and a few new (mostly hidden) features.

EDIT2 (5:59pm central US): Up and running.  If you downloaded in the last few minutes (I don't think anyone did in this approximately 2-minute window, but just to be sure), please re-download because I accidentally left the new manual out of one of the files the first time around.  The few known bugs should be fixed, and darkflagrance's will o' wisp suggestion has been implemented.  A complete change log can be found in the manual.  Thanks to everyone for feedback and bug reports!
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 06:02:06 pm by narhiril »
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darkflagrance

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2011, 11:15:47 pm »

I doubt that CAN_SPEAK is causing the early invasion of bog trolls. The ability to speak does not determine whether a civ follows PROGRESS_TRIGGER tags, in my experience. Either utuki started out not merely hostile but at war, which would tend to cause early invasions, or one of the progress triggers below was somehow met by his small fortress.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just set the production and trade triggers higher than the pop triggers to reduce the chance that they will be triggered earlier. Also, CAN_SPEAK does not require a regen, if I recall correctly.
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2011, 11:55:36 pm »

I doubt that CAN_SPEAK is causing the early invasion of bog trolls. The ability to speak does not determine whether a civ follows PROGRESS_TRIGGER tags, in my experience. Either utuki started out not merely hostile but at war, which would tend to cause early invasions, or one of the progress triggers below was somehow met by his small fortress.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just set the production and trade triggers higher than the pop triggers to reduce the chance that they will be triggered earlier. Also, CAN_SPEAK does not require a regen, if I recall correctly.

Triggers were changed, but I'm adding [CAN_SPEAK] back anyway.... mostly because dropping it wasn't causing the results I wanted.

utuki

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #93 on: May 25, 2011, 07:19:23 am »

I doubt that CAN_SPEAK is causing the early invasion of bog trolls. The ability to speak does not determine whether a civ follows PROGRESS_TRIGGER tags, in my experience. Either utuki started out not merely hostile but at war, which would tend to cause early invasions, or one of the progress triggers below was somehow met by his small fortress.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just set the production and trade triggers higher than the pop triggers to reduce the chance that they will be triggered earlier. Also, CAN_SPEAK does not require a regen, if I recall correctly.

I am not at war with them, had 33k created wealth and 1k exported.
Bog trolls seem hard to fight with that size advantage, they wipe out my 4 legendary dwarves with poor iron weapons and some armor easily : /
haha next season 2 squads siege arrived. season after that, 4 more squads. i now have 90 bog trolls and 10 normal trolls outside  :D
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 08:48:32 am by utuki »
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Teach

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #94 on: May 25, 2011, 05:33:35 pm »

Are you planning to have vanilla dwarfs?
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2011, 05:36:32 pm »

Are you planning to have vanilla dwarfs?

How do you mean?  I have not modified the dwarf creature entries as of yet, though this may see some expansion in the future in the form of specialized castes.

Teach

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2011, 09:56:05 pm »

Yeah, though I think specialized castes or overly powerful ones would go against the spirit of this mod (aside from the obligatory rare caste).  I like that the dorfs in this mod are weak and grow in strength proportional to their tech.  This mod has that really good "feel"to  it. It somehow captures the atmosphere of games like Shadow of the Colossus and old platformer games where your tiny avatar faces off against large fire-breathing aberrations.  I feel contempt toward squads of dwarves armed with iron spears and armor charging a megabeast after seeing 2 archers with javelin throwers blow a FB to bits in seconds. 

Also, is ether any good for blunt weapons?
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Alem

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #97 on: May 25, 2011, 10:55:06 pm »

Totally random thought, but seeing as how you made the alchemist skill worth something now, any ideas to do something to make strand extractors do anything but twiddle their thumbs until cotton candy is found?
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Putnam

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #98 on: May 25, 2011, 11:00:34 pm »

Wait, are Nephilim supposed to be, well, usually hostile? I've genned about ~14 worlds with this mod, and in all of them, I've had Nephilim at war with no one. Also, they come in trading caravans that happen to not sell anything and, when they leave, they actually hang around in the depot until I kill them...
or they decide to kill the bog troll invaders coming in

narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #99 on: May 25, 2011, 11:11:11 pm »

Yeah, though I think specialized castes or overly powerful ones would go against the spirit of this mod (aside from the obligatory rare caste).  I like that the dorfs in this mod are weak and grow in strength proportional to their tech.  This mod has that really good "feel"to  it. It somehow captures the atmosphere of games like Shadow of the Colossus and old platformer games where your tiny avatar faces off against large fire-breathing aberrations.  I feel contempt toward squads of dwarves armed with iron spears and armor charging a megabeast after seeing 2 archers with javelin throwers blow a FB to bits in seconds. 

Also, is ether any good for blunt weapons?

Not particularly.  Ether is quite light. 

And yes, javelin throwers are powerful, but the ammo is extremely expensive.  They take 1/3 of a bar per shot, which adds up quickly.  Also, they're quite valuable, so if you decide to pump out a bunch of javelins to prepare yourself for threats, you'll find that those threats become more severe more quickly - especially if you're using gold hammerheads.  From a cost-benefit standpoint, they are an extremely poor weapon.  One or two javelin throwers can be equipped for about the same cost as an entire squadron of crossbowmen.  However, they do allow the power of an individual unit to greatly exceed what is possible with a crossbow.  No matter how good your marksdwarves are, you'll never see one decapitate a bog troll with a bolt.  For the same marksdwarves with some decent quality javelins, every shot will take a limb - but you'll run out of metal in a hurry if you try to equip too many of them. 

If you're lucky enough to get a masterwork or artifact javelin thrower, though, putting your best marksdwarf on it can turn the tide of battle, especially against a single, powerful unit like a forgotten beast.  There are situations where this is a better option, but there are also situations where crossbows will be a better choice.  Because of this, I think it's both extremely powerful and balanced at the same time.


Totally random thought, but seeing as how you made the alchemist skill worth something now, any ideas to do something to make strand extractors do anything but twiddle their thumbs until cotton candy is found?

There are plans to use this skill in future tech tree developments.  Like yourself, I feel that it's a skill that allows for some possible expansion.

Wait, are Nephilim supposed to be, well, usually hostile? I've genned about ~14 worlds with this mod, and in all of them, I've had Nephilim at war with no one. Also, they come in trading caravans that happen to not sell anything and, when they leave, they actually hang around in the depot until I kill them...
or they decide to kill the bog troll invaders coming in

They were originally planned as a hostile race, but are now friendly by default due to problems getting them to fight both the player and the other hostile races at the same time.  They will now only attack you if their trade caravans keep getting killed, or if they declare war (randomly determined by ethics during worldgen).

They won't offer their goods to you because flying civilizations do not behave properly with the current caravan system (they abandon their pack animals, fly to the depot, "unload" and then realize that the stuff that they're "unloading" isn't there yet, so nothing ends up getting moved to the trade depot).  They will come to your depot, but they will also leave if a path exists.  If you are shutting a drawbridge (likely to keep those trolls out), they won't leave because of the weird way that DF calculates pathing for flying creatures.  They will only fly over your walls if a ground path to the other side exists (or sometimes if they are very, very close to an enemy on the other side).  If you really want them gone, break into the first cavern layer and they'll stroll out through there.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 11:17:44 pm by narhiril »
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Putnam

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #100 on: May 26, 2011, 09:00:16 am »


They were originally planned as a hostile race, but are now friendly by default due to problems getting them to fight both the player and the other hostile races at the same time.  They will now only attack you if their trade caravans keep getting killed, or if they declare war (randomly determined by ethics during worldgen).

They won't offer their goods to you because flying civilizations do not behave properly with the current caravan system (they abandon their pack animals, fly to the depot, "unload" and then realize that the stuff that they're "unloading" isn't there yet, so nothing ends up getting moved to the trade depot).  They will come to your depot, but they will also leave if a path exists.  If you are shutting a drawbridge (likely to keep those trolls out), they won't leave because of the weird way that DF calculates pathing for flying creatures.  They will only fly over your walls if a ground path to the other side exists (or sometimes if they are very, very close to an enemy on the other side).  If you really want them gone, break into the first cavern layer and they'll stroll out through there.

I had a perfectly open route to the edge of the map, I broke into the first cavern layer, the second cavern layer, and HFS, and they didn't leave through all that.

narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #101 on: May 26, 2011, 02:51:29 pm »


They were originally planned as a hostile race, but are now friendly by default due to problems getting them to fight both the player and the other hostile races at the same time.  They will now only attack you if their trade caravans keep getting killed, or if they declare war (randomly determined by ethics during worldgen).

They won't offer their goods to you because flying civilizations do not behave properly with the current caravan system (they abandon their pack animals, fly to the depot, "unload" and then realize that the stuff that they're "unloading" isn't there yet, so nothing ends up getting moved to the trade depot).  They will come to your depot, but they will also leave if a path exists.  If you are shutting a drawbridge (likely to keep those trolls out), they won't leave because of the weird way that DF calculates pathing for flying creatures.  They will only fly over your walls if a ground path to the other side exists (or sometimes if they are very, very close to an enemy on the other side).  If you really want them gone, break into the first cavern layer and they'll stroll out through there.

I had a perfectly open route to the edge of the map, I broke into the first cavern layer, the second cavern layer, and HFS, and they didn't leave through all that.

Well I'm not sure what's wrong with them, then.  I never encountered this problem in testing.  Sometimes caravans (even default ones) behave in weird ways when one or more of their members dies.  With the nephilim, this tends to be the pack animals.

I really wanted nephilim to fly, so much as I realize that the caravan AI doesn't quite work for them, I'm pretty adamant about leaving them the way they are.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 02:54:01 pm by narhiril »
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #102 on: May 26, 2011, 04:49:40 pm »

A v0.13 status update:

Finished

Some new easter eggs
A more efficient javelin caster unlocked through research (1/5 bar per javelin instead of 1/3)


In Progress


More tech tree advances, including a new material and armor set that will involve strand extraction.
Even more easter eggs
The mod's first foray into dwarven castes

Planned

A new, underground civilization, which will use a new language file
More rare drops
A few additional creatures
A new type of synthetic gemstone
A creature available for helping early fortress defense against goblins, bog trolls, and lizardmen.




I have some very interesting ideas for this update which I will release more information about as they take shape.

Alem

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #103 on: May 26, 2011, 05:54:53 pm »

Just a few random things I have noticed on my most recent fortress. With the Nephalim caravans, while I haven't watched them closely yet, I think their pack yak's are trying to fly. Seeing as how they are Yak's, this isn't working well. Roughly around every time they show up my combat reports show yak's taking massive injuries and taking several shattered bones, which are often fatal, and there are no hostiles present or signs of attacks in the records. It doesn't happen to all of their animals but it seems to be fairly regular, my fortress isn't on mountain cliffs but there are some rolling hills. As a random thought, have you tried adding a custom flying animal that the nephalim use as their pack mule? Seems it would fit their theme, although I have no idea if it would help anything.
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Patchouli

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12b
« Reply #104 on: May 26, 2011, 05:58:43 pm »

The problem is that you can't specifically tell Nephalim to use those animals. You can sort of "force" them to use it via use of the GOOD/EVIL tags and changing the entity tags a bit, but it'll affect the player's variety in good/evil surroundings.
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