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Total Members Voted: 137

[73]

I've finally gotten up to a point where I'm getting regular voidwalker attacks, and I'm really liking the new way that they stealth. Having a squad of lashers pop up three tiles away while everyone's outside... ouch. I am a bit curious, though, because I always get exactly two squads attacking me - the number never varies. I've got an absurd amount of created wealth, so I would assume I'd be seeing some more around now. I mean, this fort is getting old, and my magma doomsday device needs a reason to be used...

Anyway, I'm very happy with the idea of a reduced-clothing mod; my computer's not great as is, and the constant sieges drop clothing faster than I can get rid of it. I'd love to not have to worry about all that clutter.

Also, in my first post on this thread, I reported an adamantine mace from the weapons concept lab... I don't expect anyone to remember, considering how long it was ago. But I finally got around to getting some more testing, and I've gotten another addy mace.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Apologies for the crappy screenshot.

This came up within my first 20 reactions. There's nothing in my error log aside from pathing fails, either. I've done nothing with my raws aside from run the no exotics program, since the dungeon master doesn't work.

On an unrelated note, I recently pierced the caverns and have black squares of widow's tear everywhere. Your notes say that was fixed in 13a, I believe, so I thought I'd mention it was still an issue (I'm using the pre-installed graphics version).

[narhiril]

It's not a permitted weapon - I even went through and checked.  I guess that means that something is not getting recognized and the reaction is throwing out a random weapon as a result, but the error log doesn't seem to be picking it up and I can't seem to find it either (it's probably a lower case letter somewhere, but my eyes hurt from looking).

[Demiurge]

Heh, found some special operations pigeons :p

I'm having a great time with this mod, lots of fun things to play around with and a great thing to come back to the game with after 6 months. I'm still having a hell of a time finding a good embark spot though, maybe its because I'm using perfect world generator and I just don't know how to create a good layer spread but I always end up with maps with no more than 3-4 minerals.

[73]

After doing 60 test reactions or so and recording the results, I was able to narrow down the weapons I wasn't getting, and I think I've found the problem:

[PRODUCT:2:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_LABRYS:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]

You don't have any weapon under ITEM_WEAPON_LABRYS. You've got it as [ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_LABRYS].

Unrelated to that, I've been getting figurines and engravings of masterful slabs of accreditation. I guess it was an exceptionally productive training session?

[narhiril]

After doing 60 test reactions or so and recording the results, I was able to narrow down the weapons I wasn't getting, and I think I've found the problem:

[PRODUCT:2:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_LABRYS:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]

You don't have any weapon under ITEM_WEAPON_LABRYS. You've got it as [ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_LABRYS].

Unrelated to that, I've been getting figurines and engravings of masterful slabs of accreditation. I guess it was an exceptionally productive training session?

That was indeed the problem.  Thanks for going out of your way to hunt that down for me, I'll get it fixed immediately.

Also, lol @ the engravings of masterful slabs.  That's not intended, but I think I'll leave it in just because it seems like an awfully dwarfy thing to engrave.

---

A beta version of LFR-SC is now available at DFFD, where the zinger test raws used to be.  Pick it up off the test raw link from the front page, or just click here.  To install, simply drag the contents of the "objects" folder into your DF/raw/objects directory and generate a new world.  As this is a preliminary release, you may want to back up your existing entity raws beforehand - I have not run into any issues testing LFR-SC thus far, but it never hurts to be safe.

[Plutoman]

I must say I'm enjoying this mod thoroughly.  First time trying it out, did a terrifying ocean embark, and had an interesting time with Skeletal Leviathans attacking.  They managed to kill 3 sabre toothed tigers, and killed two of my dwarves and ripped off the arm of another dwarf.  Even with decent equipment, a 1v1 doesn't go well without training - but 2v1 and 3v1 was typically easy.  Doing my own LP for friends with it.

Thanks!

[73]

Well, since nobody else seems to have made any mention of results with the new SC version, I suppose I may as well post my results from playing several years of it.

I genned a fairly small world with only 1 cavern layer, min history, 500 mineral distribution, all races, and embarked on a haunted tropical biome. No major problems; dug down to magma and got addy armor before year two.

I did notice that there tended to be a lot of black squares of 'dead' shrubs around - evidently some type of the new plants doesn't die well, but I'm not sure which one.

Anyway, everything went fairly well for a year or two. I did note that, in a change from the usual system where only hunters wear leather clothes by default, the leather/cloth distribution for my dwarves tended to be random. Also, none of the traders ever brought any type of clothes, from any race, even their own; was rather odd for the elves, since it meant that the majority of their goods were actually wooden crafts rather than clothing.

I maintained 100+ FPS through almost the entire second year, when it normally doesn't last past the third migrant wave or so; it's definitely a LOT faster.

I was especially grateful after I got the largest ambush I've ever seen in year three, with 4 squads each of goblins, bog trolls, and lizardmen, as well as 15+ theives, at the same time. That would have been impossible to clean up after without the reduced clothing.

My military is also extolling the virtues of adamantine great helms. I have yet to see anything that can even graze them. My militia commander survived 20+ pages of being stabbed in the head by several squads of goblins while unconscious, and even voidwalker thieves' voidshard razors (which I assume are the most effective weapon that any enemy can wield, considering how knives and similar weapons are overpowered) glance off harmlessly. I'll have to test them against the clowns, but so far they're making my military practically invincible.

I also actually constructed the temple of fire this time around; first time doing that. For some reason, it accepts any tool for its construction - such as pots, nest boxes, and the various slabs. Naturally, I used one on gasoline.

As for its reactions, I found that they're far, far too slow to produce usable products to ever be economically feasible. Sure, if a noble wants steel items and you don't have any flux, it could be a lifesaver, but even getting enough for an entire suit of steel armor would take months.

I also built the various shrines, although the ritual of victory is the only one I used significantly. I've encountered some issues with it, though. First, since it's taking two body parts, which are more often than not whole corpses, it's always at maximum clutter and takes forever to actually  do anything.

Second, if you're using a fresh corpse, and it becomes a rotten  corpse while being used (entirely possible considering how long it takes), it will cancel the ritual claiming that the job item was lost/destroyed. After this occurred, I have been completely unable to reproduce the ritual at all. I've got a metric ton of corpses and body parts, from enemies and wild/stray animals, of practically every single body part. I also have plenty of the rock mugs I previously used for it, and when those didn't work I produced a large amount of silver goblets. Still refuses to register that I have the ingredients, so I'm kinda lost there.

I also began producing hadrine. I thought the capital 'H' for the mesh looked a bit odd, by the way - almost like a corpse. Anyway, I think the value of the mesh may be inflated a bit - no quality mesh is 36k, and if it has any quality at all it's worth more than masterwork addy. Even if it should be worth that much, there's a major difference between the value of the mesh and that of the products - helms and chestplates are worth less than a forth of the value of the no quality mesh used to make them. A masterwork helm is only worth 25k (copper mechanisms). That's a tremendous loss, especially with masterwork mesh (never got any, but judging by the prices, it might be the single most valuable item in existence).

Aside from that, I started growing some crystals. Everything seems to be working fine there; I haven't had it up for long. I did note that it'll use clay to grow them; probably intentional, but I wasn't quite sure.

Also, I'm swimming in lustrum, but in four+ years of having a minimum of three training workshops going at all times, I haven't received a slab about it. Everything else has tons of copies, but no lustrum. Rather irritating with the RNG there. If there was some way to, say, turn 10 slabs of one type into another it would be nice. Could always require a ton of valuable stuff, too. I mean, I'd throw in some addy bars if I could just get it already; I need a way to train my alchemists quickly.

I'm enjoying this version, honestly. I don't have to worry half as much about FPS. The one thing I'm concerned about that I was unable to test is how the simple clothing works in preventing FB rot and the like. I've had my caverns open since the beginning, but no beasts; I suspect they're either dead or didn't exist in the first place.

*ends text wall* Sheesh. My posts always end up so long...

[Demiurge]

Doesn't sound very Fun

I've been toying around with the Genesis mod but honestly I think I like this one more since training workshops require me to work for them.

[narhiril]

Well, since nobody else seems to have made any mention of results with the new SC version, I suppose I may as well post my results from playing several years of it.

I genned a fairly small world with only 1 cavern layer, min history, 500 mineral distribution, all races, and embarked on a haunted tropical biome. No major problems; dug down to magma and got addy armor before year two.

I did notice that there tended to be a lot of black squares of 'dead' shrubs around - evidently some type of the new plants doesn't die well, but I'm not sure which one. 

Sounds like a plant with no dead shrub color value, ill hunt this one down.

Anyway, everything went fairly well for a year or two. I did note that, in a change from the usual system where only hunters wear leather clothes by default, the leather/cloth distribution for my dwarves tended to be random. Also, none of the traders ever brought any type of clothes, from any race, even their own; was rather odd for the elves, since it meant that the majority of their goods were actually wooden crafts rather than clothing.

Not sure what the deal is with this, but seems a very minor issue.

I maintained 100+ FPS through almost the entire second year, when it normally doesn't last past the third migrant wave or so; it's definitely a LOT faster.

I am ecstatic to hear this, as that was the entire reason I made SC.

I was especially grateful after I got the largest ambush I've ever seen in year three, with 4 squads each of goblins, bog trolls, and lizardmen, as well as 15+ theives, at the same time. That would have been impossible to clean up after without the reduced clothing.

My military is also extolling the virtues of adamantine great helms. I have yet to see anything that can even graze them. My militia commander survived 20+ pages of being stabbed in the head by several squads of goblins while unconscious, and even voidwalker thieves' voidshard razors (which I assume are the most effective weapon that any enemy can wield, considering how knives and similar weapons are overpowered) glance off harmlessly. I'll have to test them against the clowns, but so far they're making my military practically invincible.

Right now, adamantine trumps most enemies that are unable to penetrate or circumvent it to kill (a la syndromes).  This is a problem that I intend to address with the next release of DF.  Both ether and voidshard will be getting a contact syndrome to make them more deadly against certain targets.  A number of enemies to be introduced will explore alternate methods of killing.  There are plans in place, for instance, for a demon that fights by transfiguring its opponent.  Material breath attacks will also be getting an overhaul, possibly allowing for some interesting new dynamics (i.e. frost breath).  If the current version isn't posing much of a threat to your military, rest assured that there are new and greater threats around the corner.

I also actually constructed the temple of fire this time around; first time doing that. For some reason, it accepts any tool for its construction - such as pots, nest boxes, and the various slabs. Naturally, I used one on gasoline.

This is a bug.  That tool is supposed to be the one required, but there is a typo in the building file.  Fixed for 0.14d.

As for its reactions, I found that they're far, far too slow to produce usable products to ever be economically feasible. Sure, if a noble wants steel items and you don't have any flux, it could be a lifesaver, but even getting enough for an entire suit of steel armor would take months.

I wanted to be sure that this reaction could not be abused with numerous workshops.  "Prayer" reactions are meant primarily for small-time objectives and mandates.  Setting a prayer to repeat will give you a slow supply of its resources, but you must also remember that this supply comes without any cost or risk.  The numbers may be tweaked a bit, but this reaction seems to be doing exactly what it's supposed to do.  The ritual of prosperity, on the other hand, which uses gold crafts, will produce flux much more reliably.  Combined with a reliable fuel source and an alchemy lab (turn stone to gold), this essentially allows you to create flux as needed using only basic stone.  There will be other, more reliable (and more costly) methods of obtaining larger quantities of these sorts of resources in the near future.  They are primarily waiting on the new syndrome system to use for their "risk" factor.

I also built the various shrines, although the ritual of victory is the only one I used significantly. I've encountered some issues with it, though. First, since it's taking two body parts, which are more often than not whole corpses, it's always at maximum clutter and takes forever to actually  do anything.

Second, if you're using a fresh corpse, and it becomes a rotten  corpse while being used (entirely possible considering how long it takes), it will cancel the ritual claiming that the job item was lost/destroyed. After this occurred, I have been completely unable to reproduce the ritual at all. I've got a metric ton of corpses and body parts, from enemies and wild/stray animals, of practically every single body part. I also have plenty of the rock mugs I previously used for it, and when those didn't work I produced a large amount of silver goblets. Still refuses to register that I have the ingredients, so I'm kinda lost there.

This ritual isn't working in the way I wanted it to (irritating body parts token, never seems to work right), and will have the reagents revised in the next version.

I also began producing hadrine. I thought the capital 'H' for the mesh looked a bit odd, by the way - almost like a corpse. Anyway, I think the value of the mesh may be inflated a bit - no quality mesh is 36k, and if it has any quality at all it's worth more than masterwork addy. Even if it should be worth that much, there's a major difference between the value of the mesh and that of the products - helms and chestplates are worth less than a forth of the value of the no quality mesh used to make them. A masterwork helm is only worth 25k (copper mechanisms). That's a tremendous loss, especially with masterwork mesh (never got any, but judging by the prices, it might be the single most valuable item in existence).

An oversight with LFR's custom tool objects is causing this.  This is fixed in 0.14b.

Aside from that, I started growing some crystals. Everything seems to be working fine there; I haven't had it up for long. I did note that it'll use clay to grow them; probably intentional, but I wasn't quite sure.

Yes, intentional.

Also, I'm swimming in lustrum, but in four+ years of having a minimum of three training workshops going at all times, I haven't received a slab about it. Everything else has tons of copies, but no lustrum. Rather irritating with the RNG there. If there was some way to, say, turn 10 slabs of one type into another it would be nice. Could always require a ton of valuable stuff, too. I mean, I'd throw in some addy bars if I could just get it already; I need a way to train my alchemists quickly.

I'm looking into a way to do this.  Since slabs can be produced for free when unlocked, I'm looking at other ways to get them onto the map - possibly higher-level rituals.

I'm enjoying this version, honestly. I don't have to worry half as much about FPS. The one thing I'm concerned about that I was unable to test is how the simple clothing works in preventing FB rot and the like. I've had my caverns open since the beginning, but no beasts; I suspect they're either dead or didn't exist in the first place.

I haven't been able to reproduce that issue.  FB's are working just fine on my copy.

*ends text wall* Sheesh. My posts always end up so long...

Responses in bold.

[artyom15]

I love this mod, gives DF much more challenge. I simply love it because I dont know whats going to happen in the next 5 seconds. My first real game ended with me thinking I had time to train my military and then "OH MY GOD!" a bunch of Goblins come and kill my fort...ONTO THE SECOND GAME!

[narhiril]

Finalizing some manual entries, lore files, and minor tweaks for 0.14d.  If you want an idea of what's being tweaked, I'm going back and taking a fresh look at some of LFR's earliest creatures.  I noticed that the damascus sentinel was basically invulnerable to anything that couldn't sever its body parts, so blunt and piercing weapons were ineffective, so I gave them a "brain" of sorts that can be damaged.  However, being damascus robot things, a brain wouldn't make much sense, so I went ahead and gave them a new body part that functions as a brain, except that it shatters and chips instead of bruising or tearing.




Test results are promising.  More importantly, I'm getting better at writing my own body and tissue raws, which will have some fun consequences in the future.  I would consider this a "final testing and tweaking" phase leading up to a release, probably by the end of the week.  The current changelog:

Spoiler: Changelog 0.14d (click to show/hide)

-Fixed a bug causing the fish pond to kick out generic "raw fish" items. 
-Added the grazer token to pegasoi. 
-Fixed a bug causing items made from ritual materials not to stockpile properly - they are now considered "wood" products from a technical standpoint. 
-Fixed a bug causing the machine shop to create bins and beds of clay.
-Fishing pond speed has been significantly increased. 
-Added shedim lore file. 
-Added several easter eggs of varying complexity. 
-Added framework for upcoming ritual and mechanical advances.
-Revised the appearance of the temple of fire. 
-The alchemy lab and magma-powered alchemy lab are now listed as furnaces on the build menu (previously listed as workshops). 
-Fixed an issue with the weapons concept labs causing the labrys to never be produced (thanks 73). 
-Hadrine meshes no longer carry a quality modifier (reason: absurd values for an intermediate item, thanks 73 again). 
-Fixed a bug causing the temple of fire to require any "tool" item to construct (you know who to thank). 
-Fixed a bug causing a spoiler-relate creature not to drop the proper item on death. 
-Tweaked the attributes and lethality of a certain domestic spoiler-related creature. 
-Added a small bit of lore for the previously mentioned spoiler-related creature. 
-Added manual entries for the shrine reactions (somehow I forgot these in 0.14c). 
-Dwarves will no longer seek out LFR-related slabs for decoration (memorial slabs are unaffected). 
-The prayers for fortune and celebration have been moved to the shrine of prosperity (they were erroneously located at the shrine of victory). 
-Damascus sentinels can now be killed by shattering the "control module" located in their head.  You will still need to penetrate the outer plating to do this, but this will make them more easily killable with blunt or piercing weapons (previously, you had to cut the head or lower body off to kill them).

[73]

Looking forward to the new version! Here's a few more minor issues I ran into while playing adventure mode (lost my fort to clowns + voidwalkers + nephilim + every other hostile race attacking at the same time)...

Crystalline blocks weigh under 1, which I think is a bit low. I ran around wielding enough blocks to build a small house without being encumbered (unfortunately, they're not very effective weapons).

Lizardman settlements use 'unknown material' doors with a weight of under 1. Nephilim use normal doors, and you can't go to the other races sites in adventure mode, so those are the only two I could test.

Lizardmen don't seem to have any soldiers except for wrestlers in adventure mode. The only non-wrestlers that belong directly to the civilization were ones who had been at my fort when it died - no more show up. There were also a few that were apparently independent of the civ, since they started killing each other. Ambushes from the civ itself were always wrestlers; never spawned anything else. However, bandit groups with lizardmen members still get normal soldiers. Since there was only one lizardman civ, I'm not sure if it was just an issue specific to that civ, but it seems unlikely that a civ would always get one soldier type purely by chance (especially since I killed a thousand of them).

Nephilim have an equipment manager job occasionally; I've got no idea what that's supposed to be. Still die easily enough, at least.

This one's rather odd, but I found that all the trader animals that were around from having previously visited my fort were actually wearing clothing. Not carrying it, wearing it, whatever the appropriate one was for their race - I ended up killing a lot of Yak Cows in sacred raiments or whatever. I checked this in fortress mode, but they don't wear anything there - seems to be adventure mode specific.

I do like the sound effects you added; very nice touch. Only one I had an issue with was 'the lizardwoman whatever angry hisses!'; needs a little rearrangement there.

Aside from that, orichalcum is listed as used for sharp blades in the stocks menu; not sure why.

Anyway, I'll get back to walling off the map edges on my new fort so I can do some testing on cavern creatures without interruptions. Already got a damascus arbiter to show up (had to let it go, since it was still year 1 and I had no military).

[narhiril]

Awesome, thanks 73 for the feedback.  It seems like very few people have tried LFR adventure mode, so I'm glad to get some feedback there.

Lizardman issues have been hard to track down, but they seem to be symptomatic of the lizardmen not having access to stone or ores.  This is probably due to them showing up in a biome which almost always has an aquifer (I don't know how the AI handles that situation).  I will give them access to a few reactions to generate stone and copper without having to mine it, and hopefully this will resolve those issues.  Also, that screwed up sound effect is an easy fix, (should be "angrily hisses") let me know if you run into any more.

Weight values for crystalline blocks is something I can easily tweak as well (you're right, it's a bit low).

Clothing on pack animals and equipment manager positions are two things I can't explain.  I know that equipment managers were a nobility position in earlier versions of DF, which were later cut and replaced by the new squad manager screen.  I suspect that these anomalies might be within DF itself.

Anything with a max edge value above a certain threshold (I think it's 10000 or higher, but I haven't thoroughly tested this) will have a "sharp blades" property.  This is present on most metals, including orichalcum.

Finally, you're the first person I've ever heard of running into that particular creature.  If you can find it again, try to kill it, it has quite a nice little surprise waiting for you. 

[Pan]

Been sucked away for awhile in the multiplayer Minecraft 1.8 experience. Glad to say I'm back to give this another shot. By the way, I think you'll need some new screenshots (has this already been mentioned?). I would help with that, except I'm rather busy for the next few days and am not particularly good at good looking fort designs.

[Imp]

Finally found time to grow thyme, and soon wondered why my stockpile was full of bluebells - looks like those two plants, once picked, share the same sprite.  Is that intended?