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What would you most like to see next from LFR?

More tech tree!
- 36 (26.1%)
More ritual tree!
- 8 (5.8%)
More lore!
- 12 (8.7%)
More mythical weapons/armor!
- 22 (15.9%)
Plagues!
- 28 (20.3%)
More secrets!
- 21 (15.2%)
More mechanical constructs!
- 11 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 137


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Author Topic: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.21a *=*=* [DF 0.34.11]  (Read 397046 times)

narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2011, 11:35:51 am »

Very cool, I look forward to discovering in what new ways we can get our dwarves horribly murdered!

So, Nephilim are currently planned as a sort of counter-ambusher? They only send caravans (unless you're at war with them) and their purpose is essentially to lure out and attack ambushes?

Essentially, yes.  They won't actually offer you any of their goods, but they'll come to your depot and they're not terrible fighters.

I actually have an interesting idea for more of this in the future in the form of a race of powerful but peaceful beings who will be capable of taking on two or three ambushes at once with their caravan guards.  I just need some time to write their raws, come up with some lore, make their graphics, and tweak them to make sure that they won't obliterate everyone else in worldgen.  My kingdom for [FORCE_RELATIONS].

Bog trolls are not fighting with goblins, so I'm instead replacing their weapons with wooden ones, and they will no longer send ambushes (it doesn't make sense for something so large and obnoxious to be able to ambush anyway).  This combined with changes to Nephilim should make the world a little less volatile - at least, for young fortresses (wait until the Voidwalkers show up... teehee).  It's still going to be much more challenging than vanilla, but the difficulty should be staggered a bit better now.

Expect a release on Friday unless otherwise stated.  Oh, and I changed the poll, seeing as things are going more smoothly than anticipated.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 12:56:46 pm by narhiril »
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Ult1mara

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2011, 04:59:06 pm »

I wants to see more civilzations to see this game become more difficult :P
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Seriyu

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2011, 06:23:47 pm »

Personally If you wanna make stuff more difficult I'd rather he buff the current civs. Getting sieged by six civs at once isn't so much difficult as "well gotta stay locked up for another 3 months." :P

narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2011, 06:42:14 pm »

Personally If you wanna make stuff more difficult I'd rather he buff the current civs. Getting sieged by six civs at once isn't so much difficult as "well gotta stay locked up for another 3 months." :P

Unfortunately (or, perhaps, fortunately for some), there isn't really a way I can make a civilization that is able to overcome this strategy.  Nothing can break down drawbridges or walls, and flying creatures will only fly over them if a path already exists (it usually doesn't, because that's the whole point of a fortification).  I'm going to let Toady do his thing with the military arc before I attempt anything drastic.  In the meantime, I'm nerfing bog trolls a bit more to make multiple ambushes a little bit less challenging (though they're still very, very challenging).  Don't get too comfortable though - those of you who haven't seen a voidwalker annihilation force because of a low population cap are in for a rougher ride this time.  I nearly shat my pants when i saw them show up at my fortress of just over 60 dwarves, but that's what too much wealth will do to you.

I haven't been unlucky enough to run into their most dangerous units yet, though.

Anyways, the idea is sort of to force you to either fight or withdraw.  If you fight, you hold the above-ground resources, but lose lives.  If you wall yourselves in, you need to go to the caverns.  And trust me, this mod puts some nasty stuff in the caverns.  Those devourer silk webs don't make themselves.  Maybe you'll do a little of both - maybe if you dig down, you'll progress technologically and gain the upper hand over the forces besieging you.  Or, more likely, you'll die.  You can hold out for a while with walls and drawbridges, but it will halt your progress.  If you want a baron or a duke or a king or even just more migrants, that means that sooner or later, through ingenuity or raw power, you'll need to hold the surface.  The tech tree updates in the future will give you even more avenues through which to mount your defense.  This first installment offers a small taste of what is to come.

If you dig even deeper, you'll ...  never mind.  I'm not telling you.  When you think you've conquered it all, I'll just let it show up.  And don't bother looking in the arena, because it isn't there.

---
Dwarf Fortress is, in my opinion, best described as an epic tale generator with varying levels of user input.  LFR is designed to make each of those tales even more epic.

LFR is about fundamentally raising the stakes of Dwarf Fortress without changing any of the things that make it already so enjoyable.  The ultimate goal is that you won't get "bored" anymore.  Instead of sitting on a heap of goblin corpses, lauding yourselves and letting your citizens grow fat and old, you'll need to fight for every inch of your legacy.  The bog trolls want your stuff.  The lizardmen and goblins want you dead.  The voidwalkers will do anything to prevent you from reaching their level of technical prowess.  Sure, there are the meowkin and nephilim and elves and men who will help you, to varying extents, but to obtain their help, you need to help them get to you.  Your race is besieged on all sides by forces larger, more numerous, and more advanced than your own.  They will drive you from the earth, or they will drive you deep underground, where even more savage threats lurk.  But with this risk comes reward.  With desperation comes opportunity.  You must hold the deep to hold the surface, and only through constant struggle will you create anything worth engraving on a wall.  Even if you somehow prevail, the attacks will continue on all sides until you fall or your computer explodes.  Everything you do will feel more important.

In that way, I don't see fortification or "withdrawal" as a bad thing at all.  I see it as a natural step in the evolution of a successful fortress.  You fortify to buy yourself time to innovate and advance so that you won't have to fortify anymore.  Even if your current dwarves are safe, you cannot interact with the outside world if you shut yourself in a hole, and there is so much more glory to be gained from that interaction.  No one will remember you if they don't know you exist.  There is so much more glory to be won, so many more legacies to be written.  If you're a real dwarf, that's motivation enough.

Dig deeper.  Invent.  Create.  Research.  Advance.  You must do these things or you will do what countless others have done before you - die in isolation, leaving little more behind than piles of rock and ash.  Is it more exciting to read - or, through DF, experience - a story that ends with an impenetrable, but isolated fortification, or the twists and turns, mishaps and breakthroughs of a society that flourishes because it refuses to die even in the face of impossible odds?  I don't think I need to put up a poll for that question.  Rather than atop the bones of goblins, your civilization will be built with the bones of your heroes who will lay down their lives and legacy for a chance to preserve your race for one more generation.  Your graveyard will be littered with memorials to dwarves, each with a different role in the tale.

An alchemist who gave his life to the study of materials, bringing about the discovery of ether.
A swordsman, who took up the first ethereal weapon and held off the forces of the lizardmen council while the unarmed civilians retreated behind the walls to begin the siege.
An engineer, who devised the trapped corridor that would break that siege.
A miner, who struck orichalcum whilst hewing out the trap chamber.
A machinist who took the new metal and created the first training dummy.
An axe master, who trained for years on that training dummy and saved the fortress from a threat from below.

This is all possible with LFR - and I assure you, there is more to come.




The Voidwalker Patriarch Obliterator bludgeons the Auxiliary in the head with his (-*glistening voidshard cudgel*-), shattering the skull through the *steel helm*!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 07:32:55 pm by narhiril »
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Carn

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2011, 11:55:45 pm »

This is why I love this mod. Not just simply increased difficulty, but scaled properly over the development of the fortress, so that there is always a sense of threat, of urgency, of importance. Sure, you could edit the raws and make everything hostile and do infinite damage. LFR makes sure you're never *complacent*. And, when the threat grows overwhelming, there is always a new avenue of research or power to pursue. These aren't just handed out though, and getting to them may end up being as dangerous as the forces driving you to pursue them.

A constant level of threat and/or promise of power, the proverbial carrot on a stick, that continues to advance as long as you continue to survive and grow your fortress. THIS is what makes LFR so great. Yes, more civs and and metals and monsters and plants are nice, but other mods have done them. LFR knows that there needs to be risk to counter reward, and a feeling of progression and accomplishment throughout the life (or fiery, irradiated death) of your fortress.

This is the reason I came back to DF.
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SirAaronIII

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2011, 01:42:30 am »

That last bit with the descriptions of what's possible in LFR... you should add that to the OP. It's so epic.
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2011, 01:50:43 am »

This is why I love this mod. Not just simply increased difficulty, but scaled properly over the development of the fortress, so that there is always a sense of threat, of urgency, of importance. Sure, you could edit the raws and make everything hostile and do infinite damage. LFR makes sure you're never *complacent*. And, when the threat grows overwhelming, there is always a new avenue of research or power to pursue. These aren't just handed out though, and getting to them may end up being as dangerous as the forces driving you to pursue them.

A constant level of threat and/or promise of power, the proverbial carrot on a stick, that continues to advance as long as you continue to survive and grow your fortress. THIS is what makes LFR so great. Yes, more civs and and metals and monsters and plants are nice, but other mods have done them. LFR knows that there needs to be risk to counter reward, and a feeling of progression and accomplishment throughout the life (or fiery, irradiated death) of your fortress.

This is the reason I came back to DF.

I'm very glad that you're enjoying it.  You'll have to just take my word for it, but 0.12a is WORLDS ahead of 0.11c.  I hope you won't be disappointed come Friday, which is when I plan to have all of the tests wrapped up.  There is a final, hidden feature I will be testing tomorrow, but it isn't showing anything in the error log, so I expect it will work properly.  It's a preview of things to come in the second "tech tree" update.  The second update will focus a bit on mechanics and a bit on more mystical elements, likely including alchemy.  My intention is to get a number of "base level" tech tree advances that start to converge and combine into higher level, more exciting developments which will be different for different fortresses depending on biome, resources, playstyle, etcetera.  I intend to make most of these advances cross-compatible, so that players who gravitate towards a certain playstyle or "tree" of advancement will not be barred from advancing it, even though it may be easier in some situations than others.  Orichalcum, which is found virtually everywhere in small quantities, is one of these factors.  There will be others, perhaps involving chance-based "research" reactions, odd reagents, or other concepts yet to be shared or developed.

I feel like now is an opportune time to mention that nearly 1/4 of the content of this mod shows up in the change logs as "Added new easter eggs" or "Added new hidden features."  This release will have even more than most other releases in that department, including some foreshadowing of tech tree concepts on the horizon.

If you find something not mentioned in the notes, go ahead and post a screenshot.  Odds are that if you find something unusual, you're probably the first one besides myself to see or play with it.  There's multiple creatures and other goodies that have been in the game since release that have not, to my knowledge, ever been seen outside of testing, even though they're working and are always there in worldgen.  Today's testing session was the first time I had ever seen a will o' wisp outside of arena tests.

I always felt that the games that stuck with me the longest were the ones where hours of work and effort went into features that only a handful of players would ever experience.  In Bioshock, for instance, it is a well known part of the story that there are audio "journals" included to help the player piece together the puzzle.  One of these diaries is from a mother, who talks about the little sisters' orphanage, where her daughter was taken.  Much later in the game, out of the way, there's a room with two corpses lying intertwined on a bed - one male, one female.  Next to the bed is a picture of a little girl.  A canister of pills is spilled out next to it.  If you blink, you'll miss it, but if you see it, it's an experience that sticks with you, even years later.  For that one moment, the game takes your breath away.  For one moment, you feel that inexplicable connection to the developer.  If I can create a similar experience for one person who downloads this mod, I will consider it a tremendous success.

That last bit with the descriptions of what's possible in LFR... you should add that to the OP. It's so epic.

Done.  :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 03:08:55 am by narhiril »
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Ult1mara

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2011, 05:22:16 am »

That last bit with the descriptions of what's possible in LFR... you should add that to the OP. It's so epic.

I agree with this statement The end of that little explanation of LFR was great ^_^
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Pan

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2011, 06:45:56 am »


The Voidwalker Patriarch Obliterator bludgeons the Auxiliary in the head with his (-*glistening voidshard cudgel*-), shattering the skull through the *steel helm*!


Through the steel helm? How powerful are voidshards? As powerful as cotton candy?

By the way, how can I use voracious maws as bio weapons? I currently have no time to play DF, but I am really dying to know.
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2011, 01:15:17 pm »


The Voidwalker Patriarch Obliterator bludgeons the Auxiliary in the head with his (-*glistening voidshard cudgel*-), shattering the skull through the *steel helm*!


Through the steel helm? How powerful are voidshards? As powerful as cotton candy?

By the way, how can I use voracious maws as bio weapons? I currently have no time to play DF, but I am really dying to know.

Voidshard is much more powerful than steel, and second only to cotton candy.  Ether is of comparable strength.  The downsides are that ether can only be produced through dangerous alchemical experiments (and only then in small quantities) and that voidshard is voidwalker-exclusive.  If you want voidshard, you'll have to pry it off of them.  Even if you get an upper hand with cotton candy, your dwarves will not be invincible.  The voidwalkers are meant to challenge even the best equipped dwarven military.

Voracious Maws brew into an alcohol called "Atrophic Bliss."  If you position this alcohol strategically and ignite it with magma, it carries an extremely powerful inhaled syndrome called "Atrophic Aftershock" that weakens the walls of blood vessels and prevents coagulation.  In other words, it causes bleeding from every possible body part, usually resulting in death (and quite a mess).
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 04:33:50 pm by narhiril »
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2011, 03:44:03 pm »

Posting some screenshots of exciting test results.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I sent a marksman to the wall to fire some javelins at the siege forces.  I didn't notice the annihilator veteran.  The shot knocked him backwards off of the wall.  Amazingly, he survived both the shot and the fall, but he's going to be spending a fair amount of time in the hospital.

Oh, and voidshard is working, this one particular unit just happened not to be carrying any of it.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 04:30:12 pm by narhiril »
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Ult1mara

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.11c
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2011, 04:28:45 pm »

HOLY S**T that is epic dude EPIC
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The local scottish drunken dwarf
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12a
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2011, 01:51:06 am »

It's up.  Snap to it!

v0.12a is the most exciting release yet, pioneering the "tech tree" concept, which will be an integral theme of future updates.  It's a whole new ballgame now.  You will need to generate a new world, as a metric ton of new things have been added or tweaked.

As always, report any quirks or issues to this thread or to my contact information (provided in the manual).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 01:59:30 am by narhiril »
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Carn

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12a
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2011, 02:54:33 am »

I'm glad I was awake at 4am. Downloading now!
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Yoink

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Re: *=*=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms - an expansion mod *=*=*=* v0.12a
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2011, 04:19:57 am »

Hm, I'll check it out! Looks interesting...
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