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What would you most like to see next from LFR?

More tech tree!
- 36 (26.1%)
More ritual tree!
- 8 (5.8%)
More lore!
- 12 (8.7%)
More mythical weapons/armor!
- 22 (15.9%)
Plagues!
- 28 (20.3%)
More secrets!
- 21 (15.2%)
More mechanical constructs!
- 11 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 137


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Author Topic: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.21a *=*=* [DF 0.34.11]  (Read 403927 times)

Pan

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2085 on: April 14, 2012, 03:16:02 am »

The thing with zingers... I'm finding it hard to kill them off. Several reasons.

Firstly, these guys are pretty cute. Yes, I said it. Hairballs with legs and give birth to live, miniature hairballs? Adorable!

Secondly, when I first suggested the idea of zingers I have not imagined them to be such... evolved creatures. I was thinking a rather blind, slow, primordial blob of acid and assorted elements that the dwarves lug around and chuck down chutes to explode on enemies. What we have here is instead a fast creature with a decent kicking ability, sight, hearing (I presume), that give birth to live young that start as babies, children, and then finally adults. I just don't see a live hand grenade here. I see a pretty advanced creature instead of something that's barely alive.

I know, this sounds a bit like a rant on how it's all about me and my ideas. But really, I just don't see the concept I have suggested to you working out. I'm just hoping my little argument here can move you to make some concessions on the zinger creature ai, anatomy and appearance.
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Teneb

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2086 on: April 14, 2012, 10:32:46 am »

I guess I should report a bug on the shedim I just found. They bring mounts to siege, but the shedim themselves are opposed to life, while the mounts are not. As such, they are fighting with their own mounts as I type this.
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2087 on: April 14, 2012, 01:01:37 pm »

I guess I should report a bug on the shedim I just found. They bring mounts to siege, but the shedim themselves are opposed to life, while the mounts are not. As such, they are fighting with their own mounts as I type this.

As amusing as that is, I'll have to do some research to see if I can fix that, since I made sure not to give them COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT.


The thing with zingers... I'm finding it hard to kill them off. Several reasons.

Firstly, these guys are pretty cute. Yes, I said it. Hairballs with legs and give birth to live, miniature hairballs? Adorable!

Secondly, when I first suggested the idea of zingers I have not imagined them to be such... evolved creatures. I was thinking a rather blind, slow, primordial blob of acid and assorted elements that the dwarves lug around and chuck down chutes to explode on enemies. What we have here is instead a fast creature with a decent kicking ability, sight, hearing (I presume), that give birth to live young that start as babies, children, and then finally adults. I just don't see a live hand grenade here. I see a pretty advanced creature instead of something that's barely alive.

I know, this sounds a bit like a rant on how it's all about me and my ideas. But really, I just don't see the concept I have suggested to you working out. I'm just hoping my little argument here can move you to make some concessions on the zinger creature ai, anatomy and appearance.

Here's, what they look like before the (massive and largely irrelevant wall of) caste definitions...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If I were to remove everything in yellow and bring in a simpler detail plan for some less familiar tissues, would that be more along the lines of what you were thinking?  I might also give them [SPEED:2500] to allow them to move around in pens for reproduction, but not much in combat.

I was thinking...  I might even be able to recycle the idea of a the adorable little walking ball of hair as the basic platform for creature transformations.  Because what would be more dwarven than "aww, it's so cute, let's mount hydraulics, armor, and mithril spikes on it," right?

I feel like they're exactly where I want them from a balance standpoint (we'll see how frigid ones end up working out), and the flavor and immersion aspects are the most flexible.  I can see why someone would get attached to the little buggers in their current form, so maybe it's time for some change.

Any plan to add graphics to the many creatures that don't have one? I think even wolverine don't have a graphic right now, I would not mind if they used anything, even leopard sprite...

Yes.  A number of others have also been working on this, and I'm going to try to secure a few permissions to fill out some of the unfinished vanilla creatures' graphics.

Wow so this world ended up with a lot more populations than I expected.

Code: [Select]
Civilized World Population

22876 Bog trolls
16644 Lizardmen
38732 Meowkin
16304 Nephilim
33137 Dwarves
16587 Humans
44607 Elves
32827 Goblins
541 Kobolds
51066 Voidwalkers

Total: 273321

Nothing died out :D There's at least 30 dragons but according to the site list no cave has less than 800 inhabitants. Which could make adventuring interesting to say the least.

Here's the full file.

I'm impressed by my own ability to fall ass backwards into some sort of balance.  I'll definitely be giving this a DL.  Thanks.


I've been pondering for a time on the use of a research system a lot like the taming knowledge that dwarves collect through animal interaction.
It's most likely impossible or just not feasible at the current time, but I'll give some of my thoughts anyway.

It would be neat if alchemical tasks adding slowly to the overall alchemical knowledge of certain elements or forces, say you get lucky and get 2 ethereal reactions right off the bat, your alchemists would learn more about the process of pulling ether from the void and you might have better luck with it, perhaps at enough research poured in, the ability to specifically use a reaction to search for ether.
The same could be for other tenets of dwarven research, from the production of bayonets to the magnetic dart launchers, or delicious, Delicious robotics. If they were randomly generated with the civilizations, albeit with a cap (Nobody who knew exactly how to make the things moved on, only those who may have been involved in the process or used them); Knowledge of their existence is present but not much about making them.
That gives a bit of headway into the pursuit of science, at least for one or two areas, without having to cause some sort of breakthrough to gain access to them (Like the slabs of hastily chiseled, etc) which could be specifically to unlock research areas entirely untouched.

The idea would be that alchemy experiments and the like produce results, which are filed away until a breakthrough is made, the breakthrough officially adds that section of Science to the research pool, and additional dabblings in that area slowly raise your fortress' knowledge of it. Robotics might rise up to General familiarity (They stopped trying to kill us) and you as a result, have better luck building them or possibly access to more designs.

Those are my initial thoughts anyway, I might add more to it later, if everyone doesn't completely hate it. :3

It is unfeasible right now, but I'm making a note of this in case any of it ever becomes feasible.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 01:11:20 pm by narhiril »
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Stirk

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2088 on: April 14, 2012, 01:05:24 pm »

Quote
I guess I should report a bug on the shedim I just found. They bring mounts to siege, but the shedim themselves are opposed to life, while the mounts are not. As such, they are fighting with their own mounts as I type this.

Happened to me a while back to. Poor snail never stood a chance.

Lets just handwave it... Perhaps they just bring the mounts for a sacrifice or snack? Some kind of ritual before they attack? It would work with their "Corpse eater baby smasher" kind of lore...
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narhiril

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2089 on: April 14, 2012, 01:20:00 pm »

Quote
I guess I should report a bug on the shedim I just found. They bring mounts to siege, but the shedim themselves are opposed to life, while the mounts are not. As such, they are fighting with their own mounts as I type this.

Happened to me a while back to. Poor snail never stood a chance.

Lets just handwave it... Perhaps they just bring the mounts for a sacrifice or snack? Some kind of ritual before they attack? It would work with their "Corpse eater baby smasher" kind of lore...

I'm actually working on a way for them to "devour" corpses for buffs.  This makes sense in that context.

Jilladilla

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2090 on: April 14, 2012, 03:36:31 pm »

Quote
I guess I should report a bug on the shedim I just found. They bring mounts to siege, but the shedim themselves are opposed to life, while the mounts are not. As such, they are fighting with their own mounts as I type this.

Happened to me a while back to. Poor snail never stood a chance.

Lets just handwave it... Perhaps they just bring the mounts for a sacrifice or snack? Some kind of ritual before they attack? It would work with their "Corpse eater baby smasher" kind of lore...

I'm actually working on a way for them to "devour" corpses for buffs.  This makes sense in that context.

on some embarks a shedim siege might help the fortress more than hurt it if this was implemented
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Stirk

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2091 on: April 14, 2012, 03:47:27 pm »

Quote
on some embarks a shedim siege might help the fortress more than hurt it if this was implemented

What do you mean? When is a giant corpseeater devouring your dead and getting even stronger from it ever a good thing?
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Putnam

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2092 on: April 14, 2012, 04:03:40 pm »

Quote
on some embarks a shedim siege might help the fortress more than hurt it if this was implemented

What do you mean? When is a giant corpseeater devouring your dead and getting even stronger from it ever a good thing?

One super-powerful giant corpseeater is better than 40 undead corpses.

Stirk

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2093 on: April 14, 2012, 04:07:14 pm »

Quote
One super-powerful giant corpseeater is better than 40 undead corpses.

Would you rather have a small army of undead, or the huge army of corpseeaters? It isn't like you can kill all but one of them. If you are just going to keep one as a pet, then you could have just kept the corpses in it's cage anyway...
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Jilladilla

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2094 on: April 14, 2012, 04:17:47 pm »

what would be easier to clean up on an evil embark: the remains of who-knows-how-many-sieges and wilddeath or the remains of one shedim siege?
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Stirk

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2095 on: April 14, 2012, 04:21:29 pm »

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what would be easier to clean up on an evil embark: the remains of who-knows-how-many-sieges and wilddeath or the remains of one shedim siege?

Considering how powerful the Shedim are planned to be, the first. I am going to assume that you are probably not going to make it past to many of the most powerful ones without cheating.
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Teneb

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2096 on: April 14, 2012, 05:01:39 pm »

Regarding that shedim siege, apparently enough of the "lesser" shedim died to their mounts (mostly giant ticks, but also a few camels) that they ended retreating.
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Jilladilla

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2097 on: April 14, 2012, 05:57:47 pm »

Quote
what would be easier to clean up on an evil embark: the remains of who-knows-how-many-sieges and wilddeath or the remains of one shedim siege?

Considering how powerful the Shedim are planned to be, the first. I am going to assume that you are probably not going to make it past to many of the most powerful ones without cheating.

define cheating

raw editing obviously falls here, and i consider cave ins to be cheating too, what about magma? clever dwarven devices? GCS? GDS? carpet zinger bombing?
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Stirk

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2098 on: April 14, 2012, 06:01:20 pm »

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define cheating

raw editing obviously falls here, and i consider cave ins to be cheating too, what about magma? clever dwarven devices? GCS? GDS? carpet zinger bombing?

*Shrugs*. You would need something like a danger room to defeat them in any good scale, if they are as strong as I am hoping. Magma is a legitimate way. I basically meant you are not going to beat them using conventional methods. Atom smashers, Emberlight fires, something like that would be needed to beat a number of them. And if you are using those, then why do you have an undead problem?
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Jilladilla

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Re: *=*=* Legends of Forlorn Realms (LFR 2012) v0.17a *=*=* [DF 0.34.07]
« Reply #2099 on: April 14, 2012, 07:10:56 pm »

you do raise a point.

wait, i just thought of a semi-conventional(i think it is?) way that would probably beat a lot of them:

releasing a trapped rift warden on them!
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