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Total Members Voted: 137

[darkflagrance]

Cage them all and separate the children into individual pens? You could then see if you breed the female children using male spores. If the children are not hostile to each other, it would mean that you could continue the breeding program from the second generation onward without needing to separate children from parents.

[Meph]

Good luck working on the slaves, I always wanted some

[Imp]

My first accidental overexposure, through lustrum refining (unsure if can be gotten another way)

Scary as anything.  I'm not enough of a raws-digger to understand syndromes well, nor if they can be directly or indirectly contagious.

Got the message that the extraction was canceled: to injured.

Ahh, someone's wisking the victim off to the hospital already, yay for idlers.  Lets check the health screen - hrm, doesn't look like anything's wrong!  Diagnosis and then we see, hrm?

Cancel Mr. Diagnoser's training, delight for an instant in his legendary diagnostics, woo - I will really get to know what's wrong now!  Unpause.

Diagnosis comes, goes.  Both dwarfs start to rush away from the bed, quick, pause!  There, now... eww, that's a bloody bed, nasty.  But where's the victim going?

Hrm, no treatment needed, she's off to 'clean self'.  Spatter of blood on the bed, it's hers, spatters don't sound bad!  I'll see if she's blood covered.... eww

She's not, she's pus covered.  Doc insists she's in perfect health.  She washes and instantly continues to ooze pus from every bodypart, a few faster than others.  Oh look, she just paused for a moment.... eww, she's left another spatter of blood behind on the floor, but where exactly is she bleeding from?

This lasted for a couple game weeks or so - but - is it really intended to work that way?  Your diagnoser says, 'Just a bad scare.  Ignore the skin condition that's about to erupt' and the player's left staring at the pus and periodic bloodspatters, sans wounds, and without more info until the symptoms just fade?

Granted I was able to use that as a story hook, but just about anything can double as a story hook, even most bugs ;p.  Is this working as intended?

[simonthedwarf]

whats the purpose of the phantasmal statue? i can't melt it

Valuable. Good decor. Story wise, you free a banshee soul with the ectoplasmic residue and it rewards you with a ether statue.

To get ether, conduct alchemy till you receive spheres of ethereal. Designate them for melting and you are good to go. Careful if they are masterwork or the alchemist who made them will get pissed. If the spheres are masterwork quality then just go to the smelter and look for a reaction. It'll change the quality.

What category in the stocks are etheral spheres?

[narhiril]

whats the purpose of the phantasmal statue? i can't melt it

Valuable. Good decor. Story wise, you free a banshee soul with the ectoplasmic residue and it rewards you with a ether statue.

To get ether, conduct alchemy till you receive spheres of ethereal. Designate them for melting and you are good to go. Careful if they are masterwork or the alchemist who made them will get pissed. If the spheres are masterwork quality then just go to the smelter and look for a reaction. It'll change the quality.

What category in the stocks are etheral spheres?

Toys.

My first accidental overexposure, through lustrum refining (unsure if can be gotten another way)

Scary as anything.  I'm not enough of a raws-digger to understand syndromes well, nor if they can be directly or indirectly contagious.

Got the message that the extraction was canceled: to injured.

Ahh, someone's wisking the victim off to the hospital already, yay for idlers.  Lets check the health screen - hrm, doesn't look like anything's wrong!  Diagnosis and then we see, hrm?

Cancel Mr. Diagnoser's training, delight for an instant in his legendary diagnostics, woo - I will really get to know what's wrong now!  Unpause.

Diagnosis comes, goes.  Both dwarfs start to rush away from the bed, quick, pause!  There, now... eww, that's a bloody bed, nasty.  But where's the victim going?

Hrm, no treatment needed, she's off to 'clean self'.  Spatter of blood on the bed, it's hers, spatters don't sound bad!  I'll see if she's blood covered.... eww

She's not, she's pus covered.  Doc insists she's in perfect health.  She washes and instantly continues to ooze pus from every bodypart, a few faster than others.  Oh look, she just paused for a moment.... eww, she's left another spatter of blood behind on the floor, but where exactly is she bleeding from?

This lasted for a couple game weeks or so - but - is it really intended to work that way?  Your diagnoser says, 'Just a bad scare.  Ignore the skin condition that's about to erupt' and the player's left staring at the pus and periodic bloodspatters, sans wounds, and without more info until the symptoms just fade?

Granted I was able to use that as a story hook, but just about anything can double as a story hook, even most bugs ;p.  Is this working as intended?

It's not always dangerous, but the more often it happens, the more likely it is that you'll see chronic symptoms.  It's not supposed to kill your dwarves, but it does slow down the extraction process.

[Imp]

It's not always dangerous, but the more often it happens, the more likely it is that you'll see chronic symptoms.  It's not supposed to kill your dwarves, but it does slow down the extraction process.

I am sad because this does not appear to 'hook' into the dwarven health care system as currently appears to function and the 'missing bits' are taking punches at my sense of immersion.  This astonishes me because LoFR is a very deep and detailed mod, and contains really good consistency and support, even for the Easter Eggs that I have found.  I've almost never been jarred in my playing of this mod, so I'm going to explain the dissonance.

I can make myself view it as a purely mechanical 'snag' in the works.  But the IC view of how it plays out is what's bugging me.

The healthcare system and wound system seems advanced enough that I've taken for granted I know 'what' is wrong with a dwarf, assuming the diagnoser is up to the task.  If a dwarf is bleeding, I expect the game to tell me where it's bleeding from.  When a dwarf has no symptoms or wounds but is covered by pus, and then suddenly its blood is on the floor, but no blood on it - and it's still covered with pus...  I am picturing bloodcells having joined a cult and teaming up together to mass-teleport from the body to the floor.  Is it vomiting blood?  Probably not, it's not nauseous, there's no blood on the mouth.... the same lack of evidence trail rules out coughing blood, crying blood, blood oozing from the pores...

With the way the mechanics are playing out in game, it's incredibly hard to tell if the dwarf is still affected or not.  Also to tell if it is spreading to other dwarves.  In fact, the only reason I happened to check the inventory of the dwarf (and so noticed the pus) was because when it hopped up out of bed after being diagnosed the bed was all bloody - but the health screen said the dwarf was fine and needed no treatment.  The dwarf hadn't been bleeding, bled because of the diagnosing, and now is uninjured or what?  I had to check everything I could think of about it to try and understand the weirdness.

It was very jarring to watch the dwarf instantly collapse and other dwarves rush to carry it to the hospital, to see the legendary diagnoser run over to it, then have it leap up immediately after diagnosis like 'Oh, silly me, I'm perfectly ok, hehehe', to see health reports of nothing being wrong with this dwarf, but to see the bumbling thing wander off constantly seeping pus and erradically producing blood spatter from nowhere while it, the highly skilled doctor, and the rest of the fortress act like the 'medical emergency' of seconds before had been a false call and everything's great now.

Maybe this is how syndromes always are and have to be!  I have almost no prior experience with syndromes affecting my dwarves, and I do have lower standards for syndromes affecting enemies and animals (if something doesn't get health care, I dont expect health care details about it).

In case it isn't clear, I -like- the syndrome.  I like stuff like this in general!  Make more of them -  I just don't like the lack of 'supporting details'.  I want to be able to see that the dwarf is still ill or that it has recovered, and I want to see if others catch it - without having to check the inventory of every dwarf in my fortress for a covering of pus   I want to know where a bleeding dwarf is bleeding from.  I'd love to have a sense of if the symptoms are getting worse or better over time.

Is this lack of detail just how syndromes work in DF?

[Pan]

Maybe the blood and pus was just oozing out the skin? Radiation probably turned the blood bad or something? Body trying to get rid of it? The skin was covered, but no wounds. So it's the skin oozing it out like sweat. Doctors will call bullshit, but this hypothesis beats the blood just 'teleporting' there. Story wise, the diagnostician saw that nothing can possibly be done of it except to wait and told him to 'walk it off'?

Anything beats 'mysteriously teleporting to the ground'.

[Imp]

Maybe the blood and pus was just oozing out the skin? Radiation probably turned the blood bad or something? Body trying to get rid of it? The skin was covered, but no wounds. So it's the skin oozing it out like sweat. Doctors will call bullshit, but this hypothesis beats the blood just 'teleporting' there. Story wise, the diagnostician saw that nothing can possibly be done of it except to wait and told him to 'walk it off'?

Anything beats 'mysteriously teleporting to the ground'.

Sure.  But the skin wasn't covered with blood - it was covered with pus.  Both before and after the blood appeared on the ground.  And it wasn't blood and pus on the ground, it was just blood.  So somehow the blood came out of the pus-covered body, without removing the pus from the body, without taking the pus with it, and ended up on the floor, without leaving a trace of blood behind on any bodypart, without any 'obvious' symptoms before or after the blood appeared.

The skin can ooze blood - certain hemmoragic fevers can cause separation and bleeding between the layers of the skin, so there is no open wound yet (though the skin usually soon tears open), and the failing skin can ooze blood.  This dwarf's skin was not oozing blood, but it was oozing pus - the dwarf cleaned itself at a pool of water, and I was tapping pause and checking (wanted to see where that pus went when it washed off!) as briefly as I could let the instants pass.  When the dwarf washed, pus appeared on the ground, and bodyparts started to become covered in pus again.  Wasn't all at once, took about a second and a half to cover every bit of the dwarf again, and appeared to be oozing in random order from the whole body.

That doesn't blow my mind.  It's gross, but it has its own inherent logic and consistency.  In fact - that's awesomely gross.  This perfectly fits this game and this mod, in my mind.  Add this mysterious 'wait, where did that come from... where -could- that have come from' blood though - and that consistency is blown, along with my sense of immersion.  The only explaination I can think of is that awful 'the blood joined a cult and mass teleported away' - which is also jarring but at least fits all the details the game is providing 

Dunno, I'm sure I'm making way to much of this

[simonthedwarf]

Mad.

[Pan]

Maybe the blood and pus was just oozing out the skin? Radiation probably turned the blood bad or something? Body trying to get rid of it? The skin was covered, but no wounds. So it's the skin oozing it out like sweat. Doctors will call bullshit, but this hypothesis beats the blood just 'teleporting' there. Story wise, the diagnostician saw that nothing can possibly be done of it except to wait and told him to 'walk it off'?

Anything beats 'mysteriously teleporting to the ground'.

Sure.  But the skin wasn't covered with blood - it was covered with pus.  Both before and after the blood appeared on the ground.  And it wasn't blood and pus on the ground, it was just blood.  So somehow the blood came out of the pus-covered body, without removing the pus from the body, without taking the pus with it, and ended up on the floor, without leaving a trace of blood behind on any bodypart, without any 'obvious' symptoms before or after the blood appeared.

The skin can ooze blood - certain hemmoragic fevers can cause separation and bleeding between the layers of the skin, so there is no open wound yet (though the skin usually soon tears open), and the failing skin can ooze blood.  This dwarf's skin was not oozing blood, but it was oozing pus - the dwarf cleaned itself at a pool of water, and I was tapping pause and checking (wanted to see where that pus went when it washed off!) as briefly as I could let the instants pass.  When the dwarf washed, pus appeared on the ground, and bodyparts started to become covered in pus again.  Wasn't all at once, took about a second and a half to cover every bit of the dwarf again, and appeared to be oozing in random order from the whole body.

That doesn't blow my mind.  It's gross, but it has its own inherent logic and consistency.  In fact - that's awesomely gross.  This perfectly fits this game and this mod, in my mind.  Add this mysterious 'wait, where did that come from... where -could- that have come from' blood though - and that consistency is blown, along with my sense of immersion.  The only explaination I can think of is that awful 'the blood joined a cult and mass teleported away' - which is also jarring but at least fits all the details the game is providing 

Dunno, I'm sure I'm making way to much of this

Another idea! He was pissing and shitting blood. After all, it just appeared on the ground, yea? So he probably pissed blood. And you can't tell if there's anything on his testicles since it's not included in their body part wounds list. After all, dwarves (and all other races) are definitely implied to have testicles, but are just not shown.

[astianax]

just checked that syndrome for ya, imp, and it looks like it is coughing blood, after all. the blood just apparently bypasses the mouth... so, your teleporting blood idea was partially right. the other portion of it is set to 'oozing' which apparently seems to default to pus

[narhiril]

Mad.

This is the most terrifying weapon I have ever seen.

The healthcare system sometimes does weird things with syndromes.  Sometimes you will go ahead and see an alchemist carried off to the hospital and maybe even diagnosed ("lustrum poisoning" or "radiation sickness," usually), but even with stock syndromes, there doesn't seem to be much that the doctors can do about anything that isn't rot. 

Don't fear, though - I've never had a problem with lustrum poisoning spreading through blood or pus.  It's supposed to be inhaled during the reaction sometimes.  Besides being irritating for your staff and causing a mess, lustrum poisoning isn't supposed to be a mortal danger.  I have other syndromes for that. 

---

I apologize, I've been very busy recently with school, friends, and a new relationship.  I did get around to finishing a tier four workshop for the ritual tree, which won't be used until after the next version of DF, but I thought it was worth noting.

Spoiler: it's 22x22. (click to show/hide)

[simonthedwarf]

holy sock moly, looks epic.

btw, I think voidwalkers being ambushers is making them a tad too strong. it also makes the more of a omnidangerous threat since they have no drawbacks to their civ.

additionally with my embarks they seem to show up right after goblins :/

[Imp]

The healthcare system sometimes does weird things with syndromes.  Sometimes you will go ahead and see an alchemist carried off to the hospital and maybe even diagnosed ("lustrum poisoning" or "radiation sickness," usually), but even with stock syndromes, there doesn't seem to be much that the doctors can do about anything that isn't rot. 

Don't fear, though - I've never had a problem with lustrum poisoning spreading through blood or pus.  It's supposed to be inhaled during the reaction sometimes.  Besides being irritating for your staff and causing a mess, lustrum poisoning isn't supposed to be a mortal danger.  I have other syndromes for that. 

Thank you.  Part of why I was disturbed was that the only information the game was giving me about that dwarf's health status was coming from obsessively staring at it and constantly pausing to see what if anything had changed.  I'd so MUCH prefer to be able to tell by watching the health screen(s) or something, then by having to constantly check the square the dwarf stood on, the squares around that dwarf, the inventory of the dwarf, the health of the dwarf, and so on -and then too for all the dwarves who have come very close to that dwarf, it's blood, or its pus....

The effect is so subtle, other than the initial diagnosis need and the dwarf leaping up afterwards to clean itself, that if I'd just watched for main messages and kept playing - I'd have missed it all.   No pus, no blood, no interesting show that you crafted for us to see!

You made it, I want to enjoy it - ideally without having to check 10 different things every half second between the next pause and check those things again.  I can't play like that for long!  But I blame the syndrome/healthcare results stuff now for not being able to support showing the interesting details that are going on, and am still glad you made it.  I've even 'forgiven' the dwarves for claiming I was imagining the pus and blood and all (since they said the afflicted was perfectly healthy)

I can hardly wait to play with the new giant workshops!

[astianax]

oh man, that new building is almost enough to make me try the graphic pack...but i've gotten so used to ascii...

i'm really looking forward to your new stuff, and busily jotting down ideas of my own for the new reactions. an idea that crashed into me while reading simonthedwarf's bit about voidwalkers was maybe turning a dog or something into a 'spotter' with a high situational awareness, so they could see things coming from further away, and stationing them at key locations so ambushes didn't stay concealed until in your hallways.

that, of course, got me to thinking about all those gods that only show up occasionally in your dwarven pantheons, and things that could be done to appease them. like the ones of hunting, caverns, the sky (and related things...including rainbows), fish, plants, muck, death, disease or whatnot. i'd changed my dwarven sphere alignments so more of these show than usual...often a primary god is either of light or darkness (often combined with fortresses, oddly). i usually poke through my civs in legends mode just to see who has the most interesting assortment of deities and play that civ...