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[nanomage]

Body parts already have a "stuck in" status for weapons, when any piercing or slicing weapon can get lodged firmly in the wound.  Explored in adventure mode, a stuck weapon is rather a pain, as all you can do is twist it.  Similarly, weapons could get stuck in a buckler when deflected, but you couldn't twist it so it would just be stuck until dislodged.

unfortunately, a dwarf wielding two weapons will only use one - the one that was picked up first. The same in adventure mode - you can only attack with one weapon unless you use 'A' and explicitly specify what you want to punish that goblin with. So i'd suggest it's some kind of combat AI that chooses weapon and because of this it's unmoddable. A soldier armed with sword and buckler will never use his buckler in combat if it were considered a weapon. Well as long as his sword arm is intact.
EDIT: even worse - you can randomly have some soldiers who would never use their swords in combat instead, beating the shit out of enemies with their bucklers.

[Particleman]

While it's true bucklers were designed with the ability to use them as a sort of 'brass knuckles' in mind, it's entirely possible to punch someone with a larger kite-style or circular shield as well. A punch from a larger wooden shield was basically hitting the guy with a one-by-four, and a shield punch to the head could easily break the jaw or neck.

[Girlinhat]

In adventure mode I was using A.  A stuck weapon is considered to be owned by the enemy, and you can wrestle is which gives interesting reports like "You grab the wolf by the copper spear!"  But, since the weapon isn't yours, then you cannot attack with it.  But, your hand is still on it, so you auto-wrestle most times, which results in a twisting in the wound.  In fort mode, the dwarf stabs with a spear, making the spear part of the enemy as it's now stuck in them, and that causes the dwarf to have a wrestling hold on the creature, grabbing it by the lodged weapon.  When the creature dies to moves away, they maintain possession, which reverts it back to regular weapon status.  Or at least, that's what I infer from observations.  I'll have to check if my spear squad gains any wrestling skill from lodged weapons.

Also, what versions are you quoting?  DF2010 saw massive military changes from 40d.

[blizzerd]

While it's true bucklers were designed with the ability to use them as a sort of 'brass knuckles' in mind, it's entirely possible to punch someone with a larger kite-style or circular shield as well. A punch from a larger wooden shield was basically hitting the guy with a one-by-four, and a shield punch to the head could easily break the jaw or neck.

negative, you cant "beat" someone with a 25 kilo plate of steel buckled to your upper to lower arm in a way that's not even uncomfortable to walk with, let alone manoeuvre in a punching contest

that is if you mean the proper kite shield:

http://1.imimg.com/data/1/E/MY-610426/Kite-Shield_250x250.jpg

see that sharp point at the end? thats so you can fix it in the ground while you are fighting, that's because if it somehow tips over, your arm is coming with it, if your body is coming or not

not the "knight in shining armor" kite shield that is actually a heater shield, as in, it looks like a heating iron

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3010/2578187756_dfba4b1168.jpg

which could be used with some common sense as a blunt object to excavate your opponents skull

[nanomage]

In adventure mode I was using A.  A stuck weapon is considered to be owned by the enemy, and you can wrestle is which gives interesting reports like "You grab the wolf by the copper spear!"  But, since the weapon isn't yours, then you cannot attack with it.  But, your hand is still on it, so you auto-wrestle most times, which results in a twisting in the wound.  In fort mode, the dwarf stabs with a spear, making the spear part of the enemy as it's now stuck in them, and that causes the dwarf to have a wrestling hold on the creature, grabbing it by the lodged weapon.  When the creature dies to moves away, they maintain possession, which reverts it back to regular weapon status.  Or at least, that's what I infer from observations.  I'll have to check if my spear squad gains any wrestling skill from lodged weapons.

Also, what versions are you quoting?  DF2010 saw massive military changes from 40d.

Orh looks like i was quoting the wrong post and didn't notice it in haste.
forgive me and forget the stuff about stuck-ins, it's completely irrelevant to what i meant
What i was going to say is that it's a bad idea to make bucklers count as "weapons" through the raws because it would stop either them or the primary weapons from beings used for attack entirely.

[Girlinhat]

Which is a moot point, because right now you cannot assign a weapon status to an armor piece, or vice versa.  When this is changed (if ever) then I assume the AI would be improved to allow multi-weapons.

[Syrup Roast]

You know I always imagined the dwarves would, in their joy of slaughter, throw aside their swords and pummel the enemy with their shield in both hands while laughing maniacally at the unfortunate victim.

[Girlinhat]

Close.  They're much more likely to cast aside all of their weapons and armor and charge in.  Although, I am now tempted to add a multi-grasp shield weapon, which offers no protection but provides insane blunt damage.

[Naryar]

Well since dwarves still refuse to use common sense in combat and still BITE when they have an adamantine battle axe in their hands and the skill to use it...

[Andal]

While it's true bucklers were designed with the ability to use them as a sort of 'brass knuckles' in mind, it's entirely possible to punch someone with a larger kite-style or circular shield as well. A punch from a larger wooden shield was basically hitting the guy with a one-by-four, and a shield punch to the head could easily break the jaw or neck.

negative, you cant "beat" someone with a 25 kilo plate of steel buckled to your upper to lower arm in a way that's not even uncomfortable to walk with, let alone manoeuvre in a punching contest

that is if you mean the proper kite shield:

http://1.imimg.com/data/1/E/MY-610426/Kite-Shield_250x250.jpg

see that sharp point at the end? thats so you can fix it in the ground while you are fighting, that's because if it somehow tips over, your arm is coming with it, if your body is coming or not

not the "knight in shining armor" kite shield that is actually a heater shield, as in, it looks like a heating iron

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3010/2578187756_dfba4b1168.jpg

which could be used with some common sense as a blunt object to excavate your opponents skull

Um, sorry, no. Kite shields were, AFAIK, never made out of metal, nonetheless 25 kilos of steel. The primary materials for full sized shields such as the kite, heater, scutum and pavise was wood (save for the shield boss). Lightweight yet protective, with the added bonus of occasionally getting your opponent's weapon stuck in them. Another material used was wicker. Bucklers are one of the few shield types we see made entirely of metal, and this is because they were basically an enlarged shield boss. For the greater part, shields were made to be disposable.

The long point on the kite shield was definitely not for sticking in the ground, but for guarding the leg. The Normans used them on horseback, and having an unbalancing weight like you describe is not conducive to being able to ride properly.

Medieval (and pre-medieval) combatants wouldn't have used a shield that was so heavy as to be next to unusable. Mobility was essential in combat throughout the ages.

The only shield shaped object I have seen designed for sticking in the ground is the siege pavise, which was used to provide crossbowmen semi-mobile cover while reloading.

[yacheritsi]

Most shields are gripped the same way as bucklers. That is, you hold a handle in the center of the shield in your fist. This is true of even big shields like the scutem and the kite shield. In that picture of the kite shield, you can see the boss in the center (the metal bump). That's where your hand goes.

The exception was the hoplite shield, which is worn strapped to the forearm, off center. It's made to be used in formation.

Check out this video, Legionnary vs Hoplite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c81Oc0-jl7Q

You can see the off center forearm grip of the hoplite shield and the center grip of the scutem. Notice how much easier it is for the legionnaire to block low, since he's got the extra length of his forearm to move his shield up and down.

A point about shields: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdHo-1jbX1A

A point about the hoplon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__mH8Xa7Sto&NR=1&feature=fvwp

[Syrup Roast]

Close.  They're much more likely to cast aside all of their weapons and armor and charge in.  Although, I am now tempted to add a multi-grasp shield weapon, which offers no protection but provides insane blunt damage.

...so it's basically a maul? :V

[Girlinhat]

It is essentially a large slab of metal, this weapon I have in mind.

Kite shields would mainly be used by cavalry, where they wouldn't have to move the large shield much and could let it more-or-less hang at their side, where the long point would cover their leg.  Shields are also generally very disposable, somewhat similar to a motorcycle helmet.  Even if it survives and the shield/helmet is intact, it's likely damaged and you want a new one anyways.  But if a few planks of wood and some metal shoddings can save a knight then that's good enough.  A knight, mind you, who is a very expensive soldier with very expensive training and armor.  The peasant legions get a leather cap and a wooden spear.

When weapon and armor damage is introduced, I expect many players will swap to wooden shields.  Kinda pointless to spend so much resources on a steel shield that will crumble due to your soldier's high shield-user skill level.

[Necro910]

It is essentially a large slab of metal, this weapon I have in mind.

Kite shields would mainly be used by cavalry, where they wouldn't have to move the large shield much and could let it more-or-less hang at their side, where the long point would cover their leg.  Shields are also generally very disposable, somewhat similar to a motorcycle helmet.  Even if it survives and the shield/helmet is intact, it's likely damaged and you want a new one anyways.  But if a few planks of wood and some metal shoddings can save a knight then that's good enough.  A knight, mind you, who is a very expensive soldier with very expensive training and armor.  The peasant legions get a leather cap and a wooden spear.

When weapon and armor damage is introduced, I expect many players will swap to wooden shields.  Kinda pointless to spend so much resources on a steel shield that will crumble due to your soldier's high shield-user skill level.

I think that will balance out. Players could always just hold 27 more -Wooden- shields.

[Girlinhat]

In Adventure mode, all bets are off.