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Author Topic: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD  (Read 1657 times)

GreatWyrmGold

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Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« on: May 04, 2011, 09:10:19 pm »

Two questions.

1. What am I doing wrong? I have water running into a hole, which leads through my entrance, through a floor grate, through a well in the dining room, and into a tunnel that has fortifications that lead off screen. My fort is flooding at the floor grate and the well, and the water hasn't reached the fortifications!

2. How do I put saves on the DFFD? I want to put this there both to help you guys see my problem and to show off the mineral training spears a caravan brought (long story that I don't understand).
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Flare

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 09:17:39 pm »

Two questions.

1. What am I doing wrong? I have water running into a hole, which leads through my entrance, through a floor grate, through a well in the dining room, and into a tunnel that has fortifications that lead off screen. My fort is flooding at the floor grate and the well, and the water hasn't reached the fortifications!

I don't know enough from that description to know for sure, but it sounds to me that the design doesn't take into account the mass of water. In other words, the water in DF is quite thick, it'll "pile" on top of each other if the input if more than it can spread out or flow away.
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FuzzyZergling

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 09:51:42 pm »

The solution may be as simple as widening the catching hole and tunnel. Try building floor grates around the well (leave one tile for support), and widening the tunnel, or making the tunnel multiple z-levels.
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Crashmaster

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 11:33:07 pm »

or limiting the flow with a pressure reducing diagonal

varangian

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 02:54:51 am »

1. What am I doing wrong? I have water running into a hole, which leads through my entrance, through a floor grate, through a well in the dining room, and into a tunnel that has fortifications that lead off screen. My fort is flooding at the floor grate and the well, and the water hasn't reached the fortifications!

I had a go, for the first time, at a similar waterfall/mist generator. I had the inflow via a cistern that filled itself via a pressure plate and floodgate. Outflow from the cistern was controlled by dwarves scampering over another pressure plate and dropped through grates, a couple of z-levels then more grates into the run-off tunnel that led off-map. I found that I could fill the (two tile wide) run-off tunnel much quicker than it emptied even though the input was via a single tile funnel and was intermittent. Once the run-off was full water would back up in the waterfall area causing 'seeking infant' messages to appear as babies were (temporarily) washed from their mother's hands for a nice water ride.

Fortunately I had further floodgates in place that allowed me change the cistern to a fill/empty cycle rather than a continuous feed so this never got out of hand but the lesson learnt is that water is not quite as fluid as you might think in the world of DF. But rather than relying on water running off-map my future plan is to tunnel into a cavern and dump excess water down there. I'm sure the trolls won't mind.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2011, 06:38:22 am »

Two questions.

1. What am I doing wrong? I have water running into a hole, which leads through my entrance, through a floor grate, through a well in the dining room, and into a tunnel that has fortifications that lead off screen. My fort is flooding at the floor grate and the well, and the water hasn't reached the fortifications!

I don't know enough from that description to know for sure, but it sounds to me that the design doesn't take into account the mass of water. In other words, the water in DF is quite thick, it'll "pile" on top of each other if the input if more than it can spread out or flow away.
Possible, but then why is my entrance flooding, too?

Maybe it would help if someone told me how to work the DFFD like I asked in the first post...Just sayin'.
I can't figure out how to uplod the whole region folder, so either I
m doing something wrong or I don't upload the region folder. Help?
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FuzzyZergling

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2011, 09:59:24 am »

You upload the save folder, after you've zipped it, I believe.
The region floder could work too, but I'm prettysure it has to be zipped.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 05:02:59 pm »

You upload the save folder, after you've zipped it, I believe.
The region floder could work too, but I'm prettysure it has to be zipped.
...I hayt tu' be da doofis, but how do you zip up folders?
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FuzzyZergling

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 05:10:32 pm »

For windows, I'm pretty sure it's [right click]->[send to]->[compressed (zipped) folder].
For others, not certain.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 06:08:11 pm »

For windows, I'm pretty sure it's [right click]->[send to]->[compressed (zipped) folder].
For others, not certain.
Excellent. Uploading now. If you want to look at it, I suggest clearing your region_1 save soon.
Oh, it's also my save with a moss agate training spear. And free adamantine wafers. And a moat (no connection to the floods).
EDIT: Here it is!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 06:12:55 pm by GreatWyrmGold »
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Jarhyn

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2011, 06:32:27 pm »

I ran into a similar problem with my fortress involving flooding of unexpected portions. I dammed a river in the middle of winter, channeled it through a mostly unmined level into a room surrounding my central stairway, and then just let it pour down the shaft. At the bottom, there is a 3 tile wide channel leading to offscreen fortifications.

I noticed two things: regardless of how much water was falling down, and how full the channel was, as long as it was pressurized by the drop it would never overflow, BUT I had to make the drain TWO z levels below the normal shaft bottom to prevent the odd bit of water from escaping into the level above the drain channel. I am fairly certain that pressurized fluids can actively push fluid units rather than just "stacking". Second, I noticed that if I didn't depressurize the water by using diagonals, it would spray up and out of my well which fed off of the same system, albeit a different portion seperate from the waterfall/exit channel. I haven't seen a need to depressurize the exit channel, which should assuredly be a strait shot to the exit point. Pressure can't act on a diagonal, so putting a bend in the exit shaft may cause it to back up

so instead of
                                                               V
__________U_______________________...._________
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

use
                                                               V
__________U_______________________....__________
_________|   |______________________|w|_________
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 06:36:33 pm by Jarhyn »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 07:23:13 pm »

Miners are really BA.

I saw one of my two--Shrukis, I think, one of the starting 7--was napping. As you can see in the save, the bedroom level was flooding and the exits were being blocked off.
He. Walked. Out. Just like that.
"Hey, I'm kinda hungry. I'll swim up to the dining room. What? That's flooded? Ah, well, I'll just eat right outside of it."

...
OMG!! I got a HUGE migrant wave and didn't notice!
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 07:14:08 am »

Has anyone looked at the save yet? Turned my neat little fortress into a massive statue spitting magma or something?
At least enough to try and tell me what's going on?
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gtmattz

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2011, 12:33:10 pm »

I can tell you what is going on even without looking at the fortress...  Infact, your answer was given previously in this thread.

You are suffering from insufficient drainage capacity.   The simplest resolution would be to go down and channel the whole drainage system so that it is 2 Z levels deep (dont forget to fortify the edge tiles on the lower level.  This will let the water pile up, but it will be doing so within the drainage system and not in your meeting area.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dining Hallterfalls, Wells, and DFFD
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2011, 03:13:45 pm »

I can tell you what is going on even without looking at the fortress...  Infact, your answer was given previously in this thread.

You are suffering from insufficient drainage capacity.   The simplest resolution would be to go down and channel the whole drainage system so that it is 2 Z levels deep (dont forget to fortify the edge tiles on the lower level.  This will let the water pile up, but it will be doing so within the drainage system and not in your meeting area.
Well, I was wondering if anyone had looked to see if that was definitly correct, or just probably corrcect.
Also, deep? Oh, dear, I made the drainage tunnel wider...
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