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[nenjin]

Yes. Sony's empire is vast, if sometimes badly managed. And the public tends to have a short memory once they're getting their juice again. If they decide to be generous with their restitution and take network security seriously, I see them bouncing back. As much as they can bounce back to #3.

[Yoink]

What, you think people are going to replace a Ps3 with a Wii...?!
I can't speak for most people, but I am definitely a dedicated Playstation gamer. You get the best controllers, the best exclusive games, the best graphics(Apart from a gaming PC, and I prefer a console) and, apart from this shit, the best network setup in my opinion.  What is it you guys dislike about sony, exactly?
What does Xbox have? Halo, and those rip-off Miis, whatever they're called.
I love my Playstation.

[dogstile]

What, you think people are going to replace a Ps3 with a Wii...?!
I can't speak for most people, but I am definitely a dedicated Playstation gamer. You get the best controllers, the best exclusive games, the best graphics(Apart from a gaming PC, and I prefer a console) and, apart from this shit, the best network setup in my opinion.  What is it you guys dislike about sony, exactly?
What does Xbox have? Halo, and those rip-off Miis, whatever they're called.
I love my Playstation.

Fanboy alert

Best controllers and best exclusives are subjective, btw. I don't know shit about the other two, but yeah.

And the rip off mii's are called avatars. And protip, much of the xbox playing crowd hates Halo

Edit:

Flamebait: If the Avatars are simply mii's with a new skin, what does that make trophies? (I've wanted to use this for a long ass time)

[nenjin]

What is it you guys dislike about sony, exactly?

Honestly, their attitude that started at E3 2004 with the words "The PS3 isn't a gaming console, it's a multimedia device."

That's been their marketing sub-pitch forever now. "It does everything", even though the only thing people honestly care about is the games, and maybe being able to watch movies from their couch. At the time in 2004, I didn't want anything besides a core, kick-ass gaming console. No one went there. They all became these multimedia devices with $400 dollar price tags, that surf the internet and download movies, have expensive peripherals for storage, tacked on another $10 to games "in the name of the revolution" and had the added joy of shitty first run models. (Yes I know a few people still use their release 360 or PS3, but they're the minority.)

For me, Sony was the loudest about all this crap and they were my company of choice prior to "the revolution." Since then I haven't been compelled to play most of what I see on TV because it has a PC alternative, making me question why the hell I need to buy a console for features I don't want. Only a few PS3 exclusives, like MAG, Demon Souls or Killzone, have made me curious about what I'm missing. I haven't gone and bought an Xbox either, even though I could have at many points, because of the same reason: to me console exclusives are the only reason to get a console and they don't make the "must have RPGs" and shit the PS2 had.

On the upside for me, maybe Sony will be so desperate for business after this mess, I can finally pay for a PS3 what I think it's honestly worth. And play Demon Souls.

This whole debacle has just reinforced what I already believed about the PS3 and other consoles: they're consoles trying to deal with PC market realities and failing in ways that make me not buy. I don't doubt MS's familiarity with PC issues is the reason this won't happen to them in near the same fashion, though.

[Wravburn]

I'd go so far to say that I support Anon for hitting a company in the balls and the wallet, but it did have some unforeseen consequences. It is nice to see that, when legal means fail, there is a way to still hurt a major asshat of a company like Sony.

I really don't get this. Let's call it cyberterrorism, because in my opinion that's what it is. Where do you draw the line if not at the law? While I'd give you that most people will have strong emotions if they are personally affected by one thing or another, society is based on rules and laws that go beyond personal emotions. If you rationally do them away for 'justice' and 'damage' entities, be it countries/companies/organisations, you are in dangerous moral waters.

[Greiger]

Do kinda have to admit that Sony's playstation isn't likely to go away from this or even have a significant impact on sales.  As much as this whole thing pissed me off, I still own a PSP and a PS2.   I'm not much of a console gamer, but even I'm unlikely to stop purchasing games or possibly even a new system if it interests me enough.  I still bought Dissidia 2, and I still bought FF4 complete despite all the hassle I had to go with after my email troubles and changing just about every single password I ever had.

What I think may happen is a significant decrease to the amount of folks using the online stuff or purchasing from the PSN store for about a year, after that it will probably creep back up after folks forget or Sony does some big publicity stunt or gives out some legitimately good free stuff for using it.  I never needed the PSN stuff.  I think the only reason I registered at all was because Phantasy Star required it to play via the interwebs.  And I'm certainly not going to use it now. 

I'm sure they made some upgrades, and Sony's system is probably one of the most secure in the world right now, but once the eyes of the media are off them, and a few years down the line the equipment starts getting out of date, they'll probably make the same lazy security decisions again, and again the information won't be secure.

[devek]

What is it you guys dislike about sony, exactly?

Honestly, their attitude that started at E3 2004 with the words "The PS3 isn't a gaming console, it's a multimedia device."

That's been their marketing sub-pitch forever now. "It does everything", even though the only thing people honestly care about is the games, and maybe being able to watch movies from their couch.

Actually there were a lot of hackers who bought a ps3 for otheros. It actually ran linux really well and it was fun player with the cell processor, it can compute things and run programs that would be impossible on a PC. It was kind of a dick move for Sony not to give us access to the graphics card, but it wasn't that big of a deal really.

On April fools day, of all days, they announced they were removing the very reason I bought a ps3 in the first place. I saw something on Slashdot about it, but I didn't take it seriously cause of the timing. Sure enough when I updated my ps3 ALL OF MY DATA/WORK/FILES WERE GONE. They didn't just remove otheros, they actually erased all my files!

I can't imagine any other company, that would erase the files of their users. The files of god damn hackers too, you might as well go to a biker bar and kick down all the bikes outside.

I really don't get this. Let's call it cyberterrorism, because in my opinion that's what it is. Where do you draw the line if not at the law?

Lets not call it terrorism unless someone gets dies or get hurt, ok? How about we call it, revenge?

[Fayrik]

Well, they have contracted 3 security companies so far to work with them. I imagine their network will be more sane in the future and hopefully have a plan to deal with compromises.

That in itself is a security risk. Now rather than just having one company that might sell your details on, you have three.
Really, rather than encrypting and locking their databases up with everything they can, they should probably just not store the data. But then for the security they'd gain, they'd loose a lot of customers because people might just have to type their details in every time they want to make a transaction. Because, you know, leaving your authorization codes to your bank is just so much easier than typing 16-20 digits every time you want to make a purchase.

Honestly, their attitude that started at E3 2004 with the words "The PS3 isn't a gaming console, it's a multimedia device."

That's been their marketing sub-pitch forever now. "It does everything", even though the only thing people honestly care about is the games, and maybe being able to watch movies from their couch.

Spoiler: Yup. Everything. (click to show/hide)

If you rationally do them away for 'justice' and 'damage' entities, be it countries/companies/organisations, you are in dangerous moral waters.

Except, that's what it all boils down to. Morals.
Sony have betrayed and destroyed their customers, and are set to get the legal equivalent of a stern talking to. Something has to happen somewhere to get anything to change. I'm sure they'd listen if you proposed an alternative solution.
Though, I'm entirely arbitrary to this and the way you're talking sounds like things could dissolve in this thread quite quickly, so I'll probably just step out of this if it gets any worse.

Lets not call it terrorism unless someone gets dies or get hurt, ok? How about we call it, revenge?

Actually, I propose we call it terrorism when it becomes personal (to a real person), and not just an attack on yet another faceless corporation.

[nenjin]

But that's verboten. Remember, corporations are people when it comes to protecting themselves, but not when it comes time to assign blame. Then suddenly it gets dissipated to some magical non-being which is fine with taking the blame.

[devek]

I had the coolest code too.

I made the perfect heightmap. It tessellated perfectly and it could deform and in theory would work multiplayer. You could shoot a hole in the ground with a rocket, then go sit inside the hole and enjoy the scorched dirt or rubble depending on the material that was in the ground. I hadn't found a good way to make it interact with caves (holes in the map), but I know it was possible.

You can't do that large scale on a pc or xbox without having noticeable overhead. GG Sony, now no one can use my code. You deleted it!

[Yodamaster]

I had the coolest code too.

I made the perfect heightmap. It tessellated perfectly and it could deform and in theory would work multiplayer. You could shoot a hole in the ground with a rocket, then go sit inside the hole and enjoy the scorched dirt or rubble depending on the material that was in the ground. I hadn't found a good way to make it interact with caves (holes in the map), but I know it was possible.

You can't do that large scale on a pc or xbox without having noticeable overhead. GG Sony, now no one can use my code. You deleted it!

Wait, you can do something on a PS3 that you can't do on a PC? What is the world coming to?

[devek]

Wait, you can do something on a PS3 that you can't do on a PC? What is the world coming to?

I know you were being funny.. but ya heh. The magnitude of what the ps3 is possible of isn't very well understood by people.

It isn't the processing speed of the cell that is awesome, its the memory. Your SPEs get 256k of memory that it can access as fast as a PC can access a register. So ya, imagine a 32-bit processor that had 64,000 registers and what it could do. (note: i'm simplifying, this isn't technically accurate)

Sadly, we will never see the potential realized. All the major game companies suck. They don't want to invest in research for cell specific code research because they are just going to multi-platform everything anyway. The only hope of ever seeing anything cool come out of it was dashed. It is possible PCs will NEVER catch up to the cell, because trying to get companies to program in a new way is going to be a hard thing for intel to sell.

Ok, I'll stop being emo. I really can't express how big of a loss otheros was to people who are not comp sci geeks :/

[Yoink]

Well, I just like my Ps3 for games. Now, I don't like the idea of a gaming PC, which is expensive (for me), and then you have to buy a control pad etc, and besides I mostly use my computer for DF and text-based games.
I never really used any of the Ps3's myriad other features either, although my friend did, and he told me they worked quite well. I just like the network setup, (before it was hacked of course, haven't used it since) the games, (the uncharted series, Killzone etc) and the controller (thank god they did keep the classic Playstation controller design!).
I never hacked my Ps3 or anything else like that, just played games online. And with the new model, it's really not that expensive, considering you get a vastly superior console to the 360.
If you look at it objectively, why WOULD Sony want people hacking their Ps3's to make independent games? Seems like a bad business model to me, letting people hack their hardware to earn money from their own games.

Oh, and re:Trophies: I've had many heated arguments with my Xbox-loving friends(of friends) about this...
Trophies certainly make more sense than achievements for a reward for something done in-game, as an 'achievement' is something you do, whereas a 'trophy' is something awarded for an achievement.
See?! Oh, and I like Nintendo too. They gave me the N64 and later, Animal Crossing, so I love them always.
So I'm not just a Playstation fanboy...

[devek]

If you look at it objectively, why WOULD Sony want people hacking their Ps3's to make independent games? Seems like a bad business model to me, letting people hack their hardware to earn money from their own games.

That isn't possible. All the legal loopholes letting you sell an independent game for a console have been closed, you have to get a license to sell games period. Hacking has nothing to do with this. No one is or has tried to hack the ps3 to sell games.

Homebrew isn't about that. It is just people having fun and learning how to program for the hardware, sometimes professional game companies pick up programmers and games that are homebrew and make real commercial licensed games.

Without homebrew the "superior" hardware of the pc3 is useless, because no companies are going to spend the money to write a game engine that will touch its capabilities.

With otherOS, homebrew was possible. When otherOS was taken away the console had to be hacked to bring it back again, however a hacked console is open to piracy which causes problems for Sony. If otherOS existed, no one would hack the ps3.

There is no motivation for serious hackers to break a console just to pirate games. You have no idea the hardware that you have to purchase and physical labor you have to do to even begin calling yourself a ps3(or any hardware) hacker.

[Grimshot]

 I just got an email today from sony regarding their BS.

 "To show our gratitude for your patience and support, SOE is offering a Welcome Back program. As part of this program, you will receive 45 days of game time (30 days plus 1 day for each day of the outage), added to your Station Account. This game time applies to any game you have currently or previously activated on your Station Account.
 
For those customers currently on an active paying plan, this time will be added to the end of your current billing cycle. For all other customers, your time begins upon your first login to each of the relevant games.
 
Please note, customers must log in by 11:59 pm PST August 31, 2011 to claim the game time."

 I guess that means I can put it toward a game even though I haven't had a sub in forever. I'll probably go for Planetside, loved that game. I couldn't stand the community though so I left it, I'm hoping some old veterans also decide to play again. Everything was better in the good old days before giant mecha, caves, and that retarded bending thing. Also before Reavers were buffed, damn them whores to hell!

 Oh, does this count as a necro btw? Never been to keen on forum etiquette.