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[nenjin]

In the name of diplomacy, he'd hit it.

I also found that article on the ultra-Orthodox thing. I guess I didn't know that much about Orthodox Judaism. Funny how Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Islam seem to meet at the joint of the circle, on some issues.

[devek]

It isn't diplomacy..

She is one of the most powerful women in the world, that has to do something for your boner.

And oh ya, anyone who takes religion seriously is going to agree on certain things. You could fit the westbro baptist church in there with them too

[Leafsnail]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/09/osama-bin-laden-us-pakistan-deal

This is an unacceptable release of top secret documents with huge security implications.  I hope this "former US official" is immediately thrown into solitary confinement and charged with treason as soon as possible.

[nenjin]

She is one of the most powerful women in the world, that has to do something for your boner.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess, power isn't really sexy to me on any level. It's just a trapping.

[PTTG??]

To continue nenjin's thought...

Orthodox religions all have these tenets and only these tenets:
- Hate everybody.
- Including yourself.
- And especially other orthodox religions.

This is true of every single one. Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Atheism, Voodoo, Neopagan, ect.

While I say that partly in jest- I'm pretty sure there's only a dozen or so orthodox Voodoo practitioners, for instance- it's essentially true.

For that reason, I think it's clear that the problem is not religion. The problem is Orthodoxy. We need to find out what causes people to seek out orthodoxy, and then destroy it. I believe that it is a combination of stress and the sensation that one is not in control of one's life, and exposure to prejudice against some other group and/or preexisting Orthodoxy.

Put mathematically: One million dollars spent killing terrorists will go partway to buying a single missile which will kill one terrorist, ten children, and convince two men to become terrorists. One million dollars spent on schools and medicine will prevent, oh, maybe two children from growing up and becoming terrorists.

In short, the best way to fight terrorism is by freeing people from poverty and political oppression.

[nenjin]

This theory has already been put forth as the global solution to terrorism. Education, opportunity, ect....

And it's also been challenged by many as being a totally Western take on the solution and the problem, that poverty and brutality and deprivation are just the symptoms, not the cause. I don't claim to really understand non-Western problems, so I stand in the middle of that argument.

But consider that some of Bin Laden's supporters came from wealthy, affluent Muslim nations. Hitler had plenty of support from Western Industrialists. American businesses and the American people pour billions into actions we have very little control over, that many other groups consider to be extremist, capitalist whatever. Wealth, opportunity and plenty don't necessarily have anything to do with reducing orthodox viewpoints. If there's any corollary, I think it allows people to become so insulated they can function in a group that holds those beliefs and never really have their viewpoints challenged. It's harder to be Orthodox when you have to go "outside" a lot.

Iran is another example. They're not poor and struggling anymore, they control their backyard and are quite modern. Yet there's plenty of Orthodox/Extremist support there too. It's probably like a pendulum effect, where being on either end of the pendulum leads to the extremist views points, instead of one linear continuum.

[PTTG??]

While Osama was wealthy, he was still under a great deal of stress, and his formative years were spent as a black sheep hiding out and fighting against the Soviets.

Industrialists and others are poor examples of fundamentalism- after all, they did end up making tanks for the Allies, hardly an example of extreme Nazism.

[nenjin]

Perhaps you're right on that one. One definition of Othordoxy is commitment to the cause. Still, when you're that wealthy and powerful, you're in a unique position to use your wealth to foster the growth of things you believe in. And I think that's pretty close to what's happened with at least 1/2 of radical Islam. (The UAE being the birth place of Wahabism and all.)

[devek]

I don't know, I am waiting for extreme Nihilism to take over.

Death to those who believe in anything.

[Urist Imiknorris]

DEATH TO THE BELIEVERS?

[Strife26]

For that reason, I think it's clear that the problem is not religion. The problem is Orthodoxy. We need to find out what causes people to seek out orthodoxy, and then destroy it. I believe that it is a combination of stress and the sensation that one is not in control of one's life, and exposure to prejudice against some other group and/or preexisting Orthodoxy.

I think that this is the right question to ask. However, it seems to me that direct aid doesn't work well at all.

[Cthulhu]

I don't know, I am waiting for extreme Nihilism to take over.

Death to those who believe in anything.

That would require everyone who isn't between the ages of 14 and 17 to disappear.

On the subject, you can't kill a tree by cutting off a few branches.  Orthodoxy, racism, and general fear and hatred of things that are different are just branches on the hatetree (Its fruit is middle fingers).  Figure out why people hate things that are different, and we won't need to cure orthodoxy, because it's just an outgrowth of the original fear/hate.  It'll go away on its own.

[Bohandas]

To continue nenjin's thought...

Orthodox religions all have these tenets and only these tenets:
- Hate everybody.
- Including yourself.
- And especially other orthodox religions.

This is true of every single one. Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Atheism, Voodoo, Neopagan, ect.

While I say that partly in jest- I'm pretty sure there's only a dozen or so orthodox Voodoo practitioners, for instance- it's essentially true.

For that reason, I think it's clear that the problem is not religion. The problem is Orthodoxy. We need to find out what causes people to seek out orthodoxy, and then destroy it. I believe that it is a combination of stress and the sensation that one is not in control of one's life, and exposure to prejudice against some other group and/or preexisting Orthodoxy.

Well, except for the Church of The SubGenius, an orthodox version of their views would be better expressed as follows:
- Hate everybody.
- Including yourself.
- And especially other orthodox religions.

But that's a non issue because they consider orthodoxy heterodox because they openly worship hypocrisy.

[nenjin]

And that's why they're a playable faction in the Illuminati Collectible Card Game

[Bohandas]

And that's why they're a playable faction in the Illuminati Collectible Card Game

That and the fact that they're affiliated with the Discordians.