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[GreatWyrmGold]

I've noted that workshops being built build skills, so why not constructions?

[NW_Kohaku]

I guess part of the answer might be that building a stone wall is different from chiseling a stone floodgate down, and one task wouldn't make you better at the other, but that just raises the old question of why the same labor is used for those two very different tasks, as well.

[Jeoshua]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't constructions require, therefore train, Masonry or Capentry?

[Arkose]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't constructions require, therefore train, Masonry or Capentry?

It requires masonry or carpentry, but it doesn't train them.

[Jeoshua]

Mon deu! In a game wherein every usage of a skill generally trains up that skill in some way?

[tsen]

The logic is meta-logic... If it trained masonry you could endlessly designate and break down walls/etc for infinite easy xp. In my opinion it should be a different skill, just for that balance. Also, it would be nice to be able to crosstrain my military as combat engineers so I could build fortifications on the surface or in caverns without worrying that they'd all be instantly slaughtered by a passing fluffy wambler.

[Jeoshua]

I fail to see how constantly building and breaking down walls would fail to make one better at either building or breaking down walls in the future.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I guess part of the answer might be that building a stone wall is different from chiseling a stone floodgate down, and one task wouldn't make you better at the other, but that just raises the old question of why the same labor is used for those two very different tasks, as well.

And why building a forge gives experience, but building a wall doesn't.

The logic is meta-logic... If it trained masonry you could endlessly designate and break down walls/etc for infinite easy xp.

Of course, now you can just do the same with workshops, so it's kinda pointless.

I fail to see how constantly building and breaking down walls would fail to make one better at either building or breaking down walls in the future.

...The same way building lots of mugs/flood gates/whatever helps make you better at building mugs/flood gates/whatever in the future.

[Jeoshua]

Additionally, The meta-logic of not wanting to give out XP for something like building a wall only works in a system which uses XP in the first place.  Gaining experience in Dwarf Fortress does not lead to one gaining levels, hit points, and improving saving throws, like it would in many other systems.  Rather, one becomes more experienced at the task they just completed.

DF is Skill-based, not Level-based.  Fighting with a monster does as much as killing that monster.  Actually it's better from a certain standpoint to keep one's opponent alive, as one can't gain any fighting experience from a dead opponent.

[Maklak]

My guess on the meta-logic is that having small gains in masonry on random haulers who happen to be building a wall would screw up mood and give player lots of Dwarfs with low skill, so workshop profiles would have to be set to only accept skilled masons. Other than that I don't see the point in walls not training masonry.

[loose nut]

The logic is meta-logic... If it trained masonry you could endlessly designate and break down walls/etc for infinite easy xp. In my opinion it should be a different skill, just for that balance. Also, it would be nice to be able to crosstrain my military as combat engineers so I could build fortifications on the surface or in caverns without worrying that they'd all be instantly slaughtered by a passing fluffy wambler.

Yeah, but the meta-case is more of a pain to do than the regular method of just making things with workshops. I suppose a decent argument could be made for not levelling blacksmithing skill by repeatedly building/destroying metal walls, but even then I think that's more of a pain than it's worth.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The logic is meta-logic... If it trained masonry you could endlessly designate and break down walls/etc for infinite easy xp. In my opinion it should be a different skill, just for that balance. Also, it would be nice to be able to crosstrain my military as combat engineers so I could build fortifications on the surface or in caverns without worrying that they'd all be instantly slaughtered by a passing fluffy wambler.

Yeah, but the meta-case is more of a pain to do than the regular method of just making things with workshops. I suppose a decent argument could be made for not levelling blacksmithing skill by repeatedly building/destroying metal walls, but even then I think that's more of a pain than it's worth.

Although, once again, making a workshop out of metal (probably--if it follows the same pattern I noticed from stone) will train up metalworking.

[zwei]

My guess on the meta-logic is that having small gains in masonry on random haulers who happen to be building a wall would screw up mood and give player lots of Dwarfs with low skill, so workshop profiles would have to be set to only accept skilled masons. Other than that I don't see the point in walls not training masonry.

I am pretty sure main concern was just easy leveling of masonry/carpentry/whatever as whether or not player has perfect mood setup seems to be rather odd thing to be concerned about for developer - it is not as if get everyone to dabbling weaponsmith is toady-recomended way of doing things.

As for workshop profiles - player can actually assign workshops by dwarf instead of just skill, so that is also moot point.

I'd find it quite weird if "dwarves building stone walls should not have masonry experience" was how it is supposed to be done.

[NW_Kohaku]

My guess on the meta-logic is that having small gains in masonry on random haulers who happen to be building a wall would screw up mood and give player lots of Dwarfs with low skill, so workshop profiles would have to be set to only accept skilled masons. Other than that I don't see the point in walls not training masonry.

Except having masonry workshops set to only accept Novice+ skill workers and use burrows to keep skilled masons from running out to build walls is what we already have to do with the current system.

There is enough in-game difference between "build a wall with no quality out in the field" and "build a floodgate with quality in a workshop" to warrant a different labor already.