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[Truean]

So dwarves basically die for our amusement or are forgotten/ignored.

It makes you wonder what they do in their daily lives. I mean really, we treat them kinda bad. We get upset when they have parties and want them to work 24/7 with no idlers. I've also wondered why having parties doesn't raise dwarven morale.

You'd think there would be more social things for them to do: at least temples or something for all those gods they worship.

I dunno, other than the obvious "get drunk," what do you think Dwarves do in their lives?

[fijkus]

What does happiness have to do with anything?


They work, and the useful dwarves that actually do something get the satisfaction of making things while the layabouts get to look at the beautiful crafts that the craftsdwarves make.

I'm all for creating shrines, churchs, temples or the like for the little buggers, though.

[Truean]

What does happiness have to do with anything?

Pretty much exactly what I'm talking about right here. lol.

Honestly though. It just seems their society is pretty dysfunctional. There are no schools or even apprenticeship programs to pass on knowledge (cause we seem to like the "learn by doing" approach).It just seems like their society doesn't deal well with death (and lots of it), education, social stuff, or really anything.

[Anathema]

You're applying human standards to dwarf society, however. That's like saying, those poor elves, growing up in the woods with no metal tools and having to eat their enemies, it must be horrible - sure by human standards it would be, but elves like it that way. I imagine the same is true of dwarven society, as strange as it may seem to us, it's not dysfunctional if dwarves like it that way and it works for them. They enjoy learning by doing rather than attending a school, they'd rather craft a masterpiece than socialize with other dwarves, they're bothered by death but not that much really (not as much as they admire fine craftsmanship), and so on. The way we run our forts is determined by dwarven attitudes and emotions, if dwarves were so terribly unhappy with the way we treated them - unhappy to the point that the fortress stopped functioning - we'd be treating them differently.

That being said, there are some imbalances in the game that seem like they can't be accurate representations of dwarven psychology - the way a nice waterfall can outweigh the death of one's entire family, for example. But who are we to say what's a bug and what's intended dwarven psychology; maybe they really do like waterfalls that much?

Also: Order of the Stick's alternative but surprisingly convergent view of dwarven psychology.

[Necro910]

They work, get drunk, throw a party, then go on break. Afterwards, they eat, get drunk again, attend a marriage, attend the party of said marriage, then go on break again. All during a siege.

[Teneb]

They work, get drunk, throw a party, then go on break. Afterwards, they eat, get drunk again, attend a marriage, attend the party of said marriage, then go on break again. All during a siege.

And the ones that do that are the ones that are most needed at the time. Always.

[psychologicalshock]

Jobs that have dwarfs on standby like metal crafting, butchering and cooking tend to make dwarves that really like to party a lot.

[wuphonsreach]

I thought temples/shrines was mentioned in the last podcast?  Not sure if that was city-related or if it was an older podcast.

[Tryble]

I'll quote a line from 1d4chan's Dwarf article:

"Your average dwarf spends his free time wishing he had more to do or, ideally, has no free time. If a dwarf ain't busy building something huge, epically awesome and dwarfy, he ain't happy. Idleness in dwarves has been medically proven to result in depression, erectile dysfunction, chronic sobriety, facial pattern baldness and pointy ears."

Secondary notes aside, I always felt that dwarves felt most fulfilled while engaged in some type of craft or work, and while some leisure time is necessary, the typical dwarf prefers to be getting at something; building the great dwarven halls, fighting for the good of the clan, enhancing the quality of life for their kin, etc. 

They aren't really human, so trying to evaluate their lifestyle from a human viewpoint doesn't work well.  Of course their society seems messed up, that's because they are centered entirely around different values and goals than we are.

[Ancre]

Also, Dwarven Fortresses are peopled by migrants and get overrun by goblins/flooding/magma/strange beasts/war bunnies/trees without lasting a generation. With that in mind, when you play dwarf fortress, methinks you're likely to have all the social weirdos of dwarven society.

[Truean]

You're applying human standards to dwarf society, however. That's like saying, those poor elves, growing up in the woods with no metal tools and having to eat their enemies, it must be horrible - sure by human standards it would be, but elves like it that way. I imagine the same is true of dwarven society, as strange as it may seem to us, it's not dysfunctional if dwarves like it that way and it works for them. They enjoy learning by doing rather than attending a school, they'd rather craft a masterpiece than socialize with other dwarves, they're bothered by death but not that much really (not as much as they admire fine craftsmanship), and so on. The way we run our forts is determined by dwarven attitudes and emotions, if dwarves were so terribly unhappy with the way we treated them - unhappy to the point that the fortress stopped functioning - we'd be treating them differently.

That being said, there are some imbalances in the game that seem like they can't be accurate representations of dwarven psychology - the way a nice waterfall can outweigh the death of one's entire family, for example. But who are we to say what's a bug and what's intended dwarven psychology; maybe they really do like waterfalls that much?

Also: Order of the Stick's alternative but surprisingly convergent view of dwarven psychology.

Aaaand tantrum spiral.

Point made?

[Megaman]

JUST A COMPUTER PROGRAM DWARVES HAVE NO SOULS OR LIVES SINCE THEY DO NOT EXIST

[Truean]

JUST A COMPUTER PROGRAM DWARVES HAVE NO SOULS OR LIVES SINCE THEY DO NOT EXIST

Yeah, the cap locks key is next to the "A" button on most keyboards.

I mean clearly yes, but that's not the point and I suspect you knew this. You're making a place for dwarves to live. Why does it have to be a crapsack? Even a golden crapsack is a crapsack.

[Megaman]

JUST A COMPUTER PROGRAM DWARVES HAVE NO SOULS OR LIVES SINCE THEY DO NOT EXIST

Yeah, the cap locks key is next to the "A" button on most keyboards.

I mean clearly yes, but that's not the point and I suspect you knew this. You're making a place for dwarves to live. Why does it have to be a crapsack? Even a golden crapsack is a crapsack.

A: NO INSULT CAPS LOCK, LADY!
B: Living a nice life is for elves.

[Truean]

JUST A COMPUTER PROGRAM DWARVES HAVE NO SOULS OR LIVES SINCE THEY DO NOT EXIST

Yeah, the cap locks key is next to the "A" button on most keyboards.

I mean clearly yes, but that's not the point and I suspect you knew this. You're making a place for dwarves to live. Why does it have to be a crapsack? Even a golden crapsack is a crapsack.

A: NO INSULT CAPS LOCK, LADY!
B: Living a nice life is for elves.

[sigh] Honestly, this is why we have homicidal little smiley faces rushing to their doom over their dead friend's sock....