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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Jon is working on improving the CCS infiltration system, and I'm very much looking forward to it.

Er... ah... I should downplay any expectations by stressing that I'm actually not coding any of that. It's just an idea I had. My actual use of time right now is split between writing some final papers for my last two online classes, working on de zombie game, and practicing art. The last one just for kicks and personal ambition.

* MetalSlimeHunt breaks down in tears at knowing that Jon has not been working on LCS.

MetalSlimeHunt gains Wisdom!

[Bdthemag]

Jon is working on improving the CCS infiltration system, and I'm very much looking forward to it.

Er... ah... I should downplay any expectations by stressing that I'm actually not coding any of that. It's just an idea I had. My actual use of time right now is split between writing some final papers for my last two online classes, working on de zombie game, and practicing art. The last one just for kicks and personal ambition.

* MetalSlimeHunt breaks down in tears at knowing that Jon has not been working on LCS.

MetalSlimeHunt gains Wisdom!

Get this Liberal away from the computer quick!
*Bdthemag glances at the computer screen.*

* Bdthemag  breaks into tears.

Bdthemag gain's Wisdom!

[Servant Corps]

Okay, I just realized how much I dislike actually playingthe LCS game...so...ugh. I've also begun savescumming because apparently I can't figure out how to game the interrogation system to my liking to get enough sleepers and meet my sleeper quota. I also misjudged Nightmare Mode; I thought the C+ world would be incredibly easy to deal with, but then the Police Death Squads come in and prove me deadly wrong. I won't post a thread...and I may not even bother completing my game and providing evidence of my strategy working.

Johnathan, my main problem with the idea of buffing pacifists is that pacifists already suffer from a major power already: no criminal record and no heat. Even though I don't like committing violent crimes in LCS in general, because it's so boring to me...well...the lack of violent crime makes the LCS pretty untouchable. The police can do nothing to stop the LCS because the LCS can avoid allegations of doing anything wrong. Pacifism is strong already, and I don't like making it even more imbalanced. When you're violent, you're at risk of a violent counterreaction. When you're pacifist, you're at risk of basically nothing (other than the CCS)...

I would think it would be possible to ignore the CCS even if you choose "We Didn't Start The Fire"; you need enough sleepers to overcome the power of CCS raids, and possibly enough manpower to shrug off CCS attacks on your safehouses. But it'd be incredibly unlikely and suicidal, since you need to start building that sleeper network right off the bat and determine quickly when the safe time to disband is before the CCS wipes you out entirely.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Choosing to play pacifist or not isn't a strategic choice you make in-game, where one option being more or less powerful invalidates the other and ensures nobody ever plays the other way. It's more like a class selection at the beginning of the game. If one way is easier or harder, that doesn't matter. What matters is that all of the options for playstyle are fun. Nightmare mode, for example, is harder than non-nightmare mode. Is that unbalanced? No, it's just playing the game and having it be harder or easier.

Play pacifist, you don't have many raids. You also aren't experiencing a big chunk of the gameplay. How can we make it still playable, viable, interesting, fun? That's what I'm worried about. Not whether pacifism is easier or harder than violence.

[Kay12]

Yeah, and I think the best way to enhance playing fun for Gandhis and Guevaras alike would be adding more variety to each site. I would make changing the popular opinion slower per a single action, but have each site contain more stuff to do and thus allow experienced Liberals to actually have a significantly better effect. Currently, influencing the popular opinion is rather easy for most (if not all) issues, and if you've got some way to beat/infinitely defend against CCS, that's all you need really. If you're a stealth type, you can just sneak in and spray a couple of tiles of graffiti - repeat a few times, and the political damage is done. Militaristic types, same, except replace spraying graffiti with killing people. I would like something that would encourage squads to go deeper to the site, to actually explore the site.

Also, I'd postpone the CCS. Their initial appearance is too early, and means the endgame is mainly waiting for C~ laws to swift gradually towards Liberalism. Actually, I'll even do this myself if no one opposes. CCS would appear initially when all laws are at least Conservative and the average law level is about Moderate, with a delay to ensure they won't attack always right after the elections.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Also, I'd postpone the CCS. Their initial appearance is too early, and means the endgame is mainly waiting for C~ laws to swift gradually towards Liberalism. Actually, I'll even do this myself if no one opposes. CCS would appear initially when all laws are at least Conservative and the average law level is about Moderate, with a delay to ensure they won't attack always right after the elections.

I have no opposition, but I would require public opinion to be fairly Liberal as well. Non-nightmare mode starts with laws averaging about moderate, and only a couple C+. And those C+ laws are often quickly changed.

Also, the mechanics for the CCS are very "1.0". They're largely unchanged from their first introduction, aside from the point that they enter, and the masking of CCS identities. There's a huge amount of potential gameplay in having an AI crime squad, and the game does very little with it. When thinking about ways to make them more interesting, think about the very concept of what the CCS is and does, and what sorts of interactions would be interesting. Can you intercept their squads? Do they infiltrate your group? Can you break up CCS sleeper networks? Is there an actual roster of CCS members that grows and shrinks, and that you can see? Things like that. It isn't low hanging fruit by any means, but they don't have to be only what they are now.

Edit: As another note, how cool would it be if site actions actually had enough content that shooting random people in the entryway didn't do anything for public opinion, with the exception of killing Arch-Conservatives or other important figures? If your dungeon crawls were always goal-based, instead of just "go and do something dramatic"? The only reason violence has to influence opinion now is because there's not a lot else that does. But if all public opinion shifts came from things like releasing animals, freeing prisoners, smashing equipment, forcing your way on TV, and other goal-based activities, that would really be something.

[Kay12]

I'll be sketching some stuff about the CCS today. And thanks for pointing out the fact that CCS would start too soon on non-nightmare starts. Other triggers are possible as well - non-Conservative majority in Congress, more Liberal of the two presidential candidates elected etc.

About the site raids, Jon, you hit the jackpot. Shooting up random people is nice, but it's a bit like the spray can - you do that at every site. Reducing benefit from random killing would definitely be cool, if coupled with more awesome stuff deeper in the dungeons...

Tell you what. I think I'll finally do something a bit more striking and I'll start working on those film studios I've been talking about. I'll try to make them a Mecca of Interesting stuff, with more different activatables than the rest of the LCS ALL VERSIONS COMBINED. Well, maybe not that much, but you get the idea. Old conservative film reels you can burn? Definitely. Guarded entrances? Absolutely. Alternative ways in for nimble squads? Oh yeah. Film directors, mega stars, blatant product placement? YES. Purely flavourish stuff in the public area, including retro movie posters and other items on display (that you might even be able to steal...). Liberal hackers inserting subliminal messages in the films. And finally, you face with the FlagMan, Evil Conservative InfraHero and steal his precious FlagMobile!

Work done on this so far: 5 minutes writing on the forum.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Not sure if this is a bug, but, I was tooling around in the newgame.cpp code, and I noticed that if you select the start with a sleeper lawyer option, the comments on the makelawyer code suggest that it will "Ensure the lawyer has good heart/wisdom stats".

However, when you look at what the code actually does, it instead lowers heart -- the test appears to be, if the sleeper lawyer's heart is two less than the founder's heart, lower the sleeper lawyer's heart by two. Hardly a big thing, of course, but kind of backwards from what people would expect.

[Angel Of Death]

Jon is working on improving the CCS infiltration system, and I'm very much looking forward to it.

Er... ah... I should downplay any expectations by stressing that I'm actually not coding any of that. It's just an idea I had. My actual use of time right now is split between writing some final papers for my last two online classes, working on de zombie game, and practicing art. The last one just for kicks and personal ambition.

* MetalSlimeHunt breaks down in tears at knowing that Jon has not been working on LCS.

MetalSlimeHunt gains Wisdom!

AoD vomits tears when he hears the news!
AoD has lost juice!

[Gunner-Chan]

Edit: As another note, how cool would it be if site actions actually had enough content that shooting random people in the entryway didn't do anything for public opinion, with the exception of killing Arch-Conservatives or other important figures? If your dungeon crawls were always goal-based, instead of just "go and do something dramatic"? The only reason violence has to influence opinion now is because there's not a lot else that does. But if all public opinion shifts came from things like releasing animals, freeing prisoners, smashing equipment, forcing your way on TV, and other goal-based activities, that would really be something.

I would love it if you did something like this. As the current options give very little juice and seem not to sway the public much in comparison. With the exception of that big red button.

I also agree that there should probally be a way to release a hostage after escaping rather than having to take them with you. I've ended up having to take hostages on the way out that I had no time to break simply because I didn't have the skilled manpower and I KNEW this while taking them for survival. Thankfully I had people willing to kill them at home by this point.

Also since I'm not sure where to put this. I only recently really got into this game, so did my girlfriend who posts under the name Owlga occasionally. But I really wanna thank you for taking a game I thought was interesting but too flawed to be fun into what makes me feel justified for posting here in the first place now that DF lost it's charms with me.

So thank you Jonathan S. Fox and the other developers continuing this great game. From me and Owlga. You have both our thanks.

[Kay12]

Not sure if this is a bug, but, I was tooling around in the newgame.cpp code, and I noticed that if you select the start with a sleeper lawyer option, the comments on the makelawyer code suggest that it will "Ensure the lawyer has good heart/wisdom stats".

However, when you look at what the code actually does, it instead lowers heart -- the test appears to be, if the sleeper lawyer's heart is two less than the founder's heart, lower the sleeper lawyer's heart by two. Hardly a big thing, of course, but kind of backwards from what people would expect.

Hmm! It really seems that the lawyer, in the very likely even the founder has two or more bigger heart than the lawyer, really does seem to lose 2 heart. Weird.

[Vherid]

Never played this game before, this is amazing.

[Kay12]

I, too, was totally charmed by this game when I first found it two years ago. Now I enjoy browsing the source more than actual playing, but hey, that's a way of enjoying the game too =)

[Nienhaus]

This is my stats so far :D

[Yoink]

I have an ex-Corporate manager as the leader of one of my Liberal Attack Teams... I just noticed.
The guys 55 and has 15 agility, and 15 rifle skill.