Eh, perhaps not opposite. More like e.g. women abuse women for, say, the same reason men abuse men rather than because it aligns them with men. I'm not sure there's a "need" for men to abuse men to climb the social ladder, though it may be sufficient. I'm also not sure point #1 is accurate, since the other men may feel the need to protect the "weak" woman (so not defeating your overall point). And point #3 seems flaky since "it doesn't faze me therefore I'm stronger" doesn't seem to apply to male-male abuse given point #2. I suppose my problem is less with the message than the spin/framing.
I should make that clearer: abuse is part of the strategy to climb the social ladder, which usually involves stepping on women, and then stepping on men (in some way). It's not necessarily the only way. At the very least, I hope not.
Male-on-male abuse... well, that's a bit different, because dudes aren't targeted with the "inherently weak" mark to start with, so there's more leeway. But in general, again, it's like offering apologies and stuff like that. If your status is low, then it's seen as weak behavior. If your status is high, it's seen as self-strengthening behavior (because it shows that you can afford to take the hit in status). And so on, and so forth.
...
I should probably add that none of this was taught in class. It's based on my own theories and observations, so your mileage may, of course, vary.
And now, for Barbarossa the Seal God, the hyper-pedantic version. You seem to need this.
"Hey, look! Solve the misogyny problem and you probably won't have the fucked-up male homosocial problems, either!"
Right! And we can solve the murder problem by fixing the thievery problem! Can you explain the correlation, here?
Thievery doesn't define itself by its opposition to murder. It defines itself by its opposition to not-stealing.
Get rid of the idea of private property and you will have no thievery. Remove the barrier between life and death and there is no murder. Remove the idea of "feminine traits" being universally bad (i.e. masochism, self-destruction, passiveness as defined by Freud) and you won't have the idea that "masculine traits" (which define themselves in opposition to the feminine) are universally good. Thus, one might be able to, I don't know, be oneself and forget about whether one is fulfilling one's respective gender stereotype for a while. Men might not be requested to be violent, and women might not be requested to be sandwich-factories.
You need to abuse other men to gain more power within the male social structure itself.
In what societies? I can tell you that this is not how it works in any school I've been to, over here on the west coast of America.
... So you've never punched a guy because you wanted him to fuck off and stop treating you like a lesser person? I have. I've also punched girls and engaged in painful academic rivalries. But mostly, I've had guys who wanted to go out with me posturing and trying make me look like a smaller person, because a woman isn't datable unless she's smaller than you. And you know, I've seen plenty of dudes screwing each other up in order to gain power.
(Hint: that's a generalization to the majority, i.e. what mass culture tells us we should do, and what many people obey. Other hint: I was born and raised in California. It's not like I'm not from the West Coast either, but your little pull for ethos was kind of funny for a while)
women get away with abuse of men almost whenever they want.
What kind of man are you if you can't take someone weaker trying to usurp you?
Did you actually just say that? It sounds to me like you just said women are weaker than men. They're not, and I'm ashamed of you for saying something so vulgar and... wrong. I hope that was sarcasm, or possibly a twisted joke. But you know what? Women abuse men quite often. They just don't report it.
... Oh my god, learn to sarcasm. Or, alternatively, figure out when I'm talking about mass society, rather than you personally. Or, alternatively, pay attention to what I USUALLY write, and then figure out why I might have used those particular words rather than taking the opportunity to say "ooooh, shame on Vector." We were both in the army thread. Do you not remember me arguing there, or are you just taking the opportunity to try to take me down?
What does mass society say?
Men are strong, women are weak, if you can't take what a bitch gives you then you're not a man. Then they don't report abuse, because it'd be emasculating. I mean, seriously, you need to learn how to read. Or how to think about what you're reading. Or to think about what you're writing before you hit "submit." I think any of those would have done it.
And women abuse each other plenty too but that's something I hardly understand at all.
Easy. The primary way to gain power is to align yourself with men. First way to align yourself with men? Abuse women.
If this is the case, explain to me why abusing a woman will get you abused by any given one of my friends? (Abusing anyone at all, actually.)
Hey look, stereotypes! Men are always the oppressors and evil! They're all in some secret pact to all abuse women and high-five about it later! That's how they make friends!
. . .
Mass society, sweetheart! What's this, your cushy little group of friends managed to remove yourselves from it? Good on you. Now see what it's like for a woman living in the rest of the world.
I said nothing about a secret pact. Just take a look around you at what society expects from women versus what it expects from men. Pay attention to what the establishment is asking of us. I'm not talking about something that individuals buy into intentionally and happily uphold. I'm talking about the bullshit that occurs, each and every day, unintentionally, because people are too blind to see it.
I'm talking about a society where
this is remotely acceptable.
I'm talking about a society where male bonds are created by gifts of female flesh, and where one in three women have been molested, and one in six raped. Where women are given away by men, and do not give themselves as gifts. Where women are expected to be chosen and taken by men, rather than women doing the choosing, and women doing the taking in equal measure.
And if you don't see that, then you need to pay a hell of a lot more attention.
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Topic: Bullying (Read 8225 times)