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Author Topic: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions  (Read 7476 times)

Noir

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Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« on: April 20, 2011, 05:05:48 am »

Right, after having lots of fun the first time around, I started a new fortress - and I already have everything I had after 6 seaseons in just 1 (less the amount of dwarves, plus the metal).

I have a couple of questions though, given that this time I have both metal and clay, which will require ample usage of furnaces: is wood the only viable source of fuel? Because the wood in my area is, you know, limited. Am I going to rely on trade for this? Do wood regrow every once in a while? Can I burn plants for fuel?

Also, I was considering of making vases to store booze rather than barrels, so that I can save wood. But to make a vase at the kiln, other than clay I need fuel. How much fuel do I need? One log worth of fuel to make 1 pot, or is the equation more in my favour? Because if I still need a log, I'd rather make a barrel straight away - it saves time.

I also have metal - TONS of metal, that I will arguably need to smelt, and this will require more fuel. How much fuel I need for how many smelting operations?
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Darkweave

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2011, 05:24:45 am »

Wood can be burnt for fuel

If you find lignite or bituminous coal you can smelt them for a net gain of one and two fuel respectively.

If you dig deep enough you'll find the magma sea which you can use to power magma smelters, forges etc.
(Note that you'll still need fuel as an ingredient to make steel)

Trees are a renewable source, new ones will sprout up outside and in the caverns when you find those.

Stone pots can be made by a stone-crafter and a crafting workshop and these can be used to store booze.
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Noir

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2011, 05:27:12 am »

Thanks, thanks for the useful pointers.
Quantitatively speaking, how much fuel do I get from every log? And how much fuel do I need for every item created at the kiln?

Trees are a renewable source, new ones will sprout up outside and in the caverns when you find those.

What do you mean by "when you find those"?
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

theSquirrelOfLoathing

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2011, 05:31:39 am »

There are subterranean caverns hidden beneath the stone. Dig down to find them.
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Darkweave

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 06:21:35 am »

Thanks, thanks for the useful pointers.
Quantitatively speaking, how much fuel do I get from every log? And how much fuel do I need for every item created at the kiln?

Trees are a renewable source, new ones will sprout up outside and in the caverns when you find those.

What do you mean by "when you find those"?

Aside from smelting steel which requires an additional unit of coke/charcoal as an ingredient each job will require one unit of fuel. Burning one log produces one unit of fuel (charcoal). There is no difference between coke and charcoal aside from the name and their source (coke comes from smelting either lignite or bituminous coal at a smelter).

There will be a number of caverns somewhere underground. They contain giant mushrooms (fungi-wood, tower-caps etc.) which function as trees and also plants that you can gather. The plants are the usual subterranean ones (plump helmets and the like). Upon breaching the caverns any soil layers that you have dug out will also begin sprouting subterranean trees and plants.

Edit: Just a warning, the caverns can contain Fun. ;)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:23:41 am by Darkweave »
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Reelyanoob

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 06:28:14 am »

Also, I was considering of making vases to store booze rather than barrels, so that I can save wood. But to make a vase at the kiln, other than clay I need fuel. How much fuel do I need? One log worth of fuel to make 1 pot, or is the equation more in my favour? Because if I still need a log, I'd rather make a barrel straight away - it saves time.
Not just time, but resources. There's no point in glass or clay pots until you build magma forges, since as you point out just build a barrel with the one wood. Go for rock pots.

There's no point with metal bins (or cages) until Magma for the exact same reason.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:30:05 am by Reelyanoob »
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Noir

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 06:29:18 am »

Awesome - so if I breach an underground cavern, mushrooms that can produce fuel will start growing sponteously on soil where stuff can grow? Time to start digging then!!

Does this work even if I seal the cave?
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Noir

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 06:30:40 am »

Not just time, but resources. There's no point in glass or clay pots until you build magma forges, since as you point out just build a barrel with the one wood. Go for rock pots.

There's no point with metal bins until Magma for the exact same reason.

Thanks for pointing that out.
What can I store inside a rock pot?
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Reelyanoob

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 06:31:59 am »

Does this work even if I seal the cave?
Yup. Just access the caverns at all and all underground soil or muddied rock will "spore" plants and trees. Btw, this is use for a herbalist as shrubs block new trees, so clearing shrubs in the underground tree area  (or overland area too i guess) encourages new saplings.

Rock pot is basically a stone barrel. It works for me for everything except workshops which ask for a "barrel" to create (dyer etc)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:38:25 am by Reelyanoob »
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elpyfo

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 06:34:35 am »

Thanks for pointing that out.
What can I store inside a rock pot?

Anything food- or booze-related. Exactly the same stuff as in barrels.

*EDIT* Goddamnit, ninjaed.  :P
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Minnakht

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2011, 06:50:21 am »

Because of how magma removes all your need of fuel except for steel making, it's recommended to go for it straight away. The fact that you need to go through all the cavern levels to meet it (usually) only makes it better.

Try doing so! Dig deep enough quickly!
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KtosoX

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2011, 07:16:52 am »

I can make barrels out of rock? :o SINCE WHEN?!
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Noir

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2011, 07:24:11 am »

Oh and one more thing: I have noticed that sometimes, when I finish a work at my Mason workshop or Carpenter workshop the item I crafted stays there - it is not moved to its respective stockpile immediately. Instead, my dwarves will go to take it from the workship directly when they are needed.

1) Is this a good or a bad thing? Technically, it saves room from my stockpile, so...
2) Is there a way to force my dwarves to behave in one way or the other, that is, always moving their crafted items away or always leaving them there?
3) Is there a way to check how many finished items a workshop contains?
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Minnakht

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 07:31:27 am »

I can make barrels out of rock? :o SINCE WHEN?!

After 31.18, sometime. Stone pots, craftsdwarf's workshop.

1) Is this a good or a bad thing? Technically, it saves room from my stockpile, so...
2) Is there a way to force my dwarves to behave in one way or the other, that is, always moving their crafted items away or always leaving them there?
3) Is there a way to check how many finished items a workshop contains?

1. It slows down production in the workshop, though. That also might not be a bad thing, to keep you from further product overflow...
2. Just set or not set stockpiles. If they don't have anywhere to bring stuff to, they won't. If they have, they will. No further possile control.
3. t key - look at all items there are in a building.
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Giant badgers are cruel saddistic balls of fur and hate. Did anyone know they could paint a wall with a single dwarven baby?.... You know what, I made the Giant badgers sound like sane DF players.
A Kea has stolen a coke!

wuphonsreach

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Re: Noir's second fortress! And a couple of questions
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 09:21:43 am »

For mason stuff, build it in a JIT fashion (don't queue up 1000 doors if you only need 10 right now).  That keeps you from needing to create a temporary stockpile to hold furniture.

For the brewing still, I suggest just putting the brewer on /R and let the workshop get cluttered until you're ready to setup another booze stockpile somewhere.  If the other booze stockpiles get used up, dwarves will start to pull barrels of drink out of the still location and production will speed back up.  That turns the brewery into an auto-throttling system.  And since my brewers are always fully dedicated to their craft, I don't care if it takes them 10x longer to make a barrel of brew.

(Unlike masons, who need to be available to build walls.  I don't want them tied up in the mason shop spending 10x longer to make a coffin just because the workshop is cluttered.)
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