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[mainiac]

Now, that being said, it might not make for a good game. If that's the case, then yes, Paradox probably should of done a better job. I'm just saying that if Paradox is very in-depthly simulating a shitty economic system, you can't turn around and berate them when the economies of the world are shit.

While it's true that the economy of the Victorian era was deeply broken, it was broken in a different way then the game portrays.  While it's true that the big dogs pulled a lot of shenanigans in this era, there is such a thing as an equilibrium.  In Vicky 2 if a country can't export because say it's prestige is too low, it's population starves because it lacks the money to buy either foreign or domestic foodstuffs.  In the real world, if a country isn't exporting, it's going to stop importing stuff because the exchange rate is going to make imports prohibitively expensive.  Additionally, while it's possible for a country to not have enough gold to keep foreign creditors placated and cause a panic, it shouldn't experience a Vicky2 style depression of 1836.  If there isn't enough gold for the domestic market to function, prices would drop (well sorta*) until you reach a new price level where the amount of gold would be sufficient.

* This point is more complicated what with sticky prices and wages and whatnot but two things here.  First, they were less sticky in the 19th century.  And secondly, paper money would probably come to the rescue, with banks and governments being able to issue new paper until there is enough for the market to function.  Again, foreign investors wouldn't be reassured but the domestic market would function with there being enough currency for transactions.

Plus there's sea dumping which is absolutely immersion breaking.  I can understand that paradox didn't want to bother with a huge number of stockpiles.  But factories go into the red buying inputs for outputs they are just going to throw away anyway.  Nobody in the 19th century ever entertained such a silly thought.  And it happens even if you are playing a planned economy.  In Vicky 1 you were communist even if you were capitalist.  In Vicky 2 you are capitalist even if you are communist.

But still, I think that there is a lot of promise in Vicky 2.  With the PDM mod the world economy works, albeit at the price of making things a bit easy.  But I believe that with about 1 major reform to the way that money flows through the world economy, the system would work.

[Toady Two]

Here is a screen from my latest Magna Mundi ultimate game as Bavaria. The game sofar can be summarizedd by two words "Dat Austria".



The reformation has kicked and Bohemia is the leader of the protestants in the Empire. Austria is Emperor and leads a personal Union with defender of the catholic faith Spain. I'm lucky to be on their side in the religious turmoil but my ambition is to become emperor which will  be impossible to pull off without getting on the bad side of Austria-Hungary. Heck, even I were to control the Imperial Demense of Burgundy and Netherlands I'm not sure if I could take on the BBW(Big Bad White).

As you can see the other neighboring superpower France is in shambles after a over 20 year face off with the Emperor and allies. I hoped to use my espionage National Idea and spies to destabilize but alas they stayed at +3 stab throughout the massive conflict.

Ottomans are beign very timid this game. They were even allied with the Emperor for a moment. I'm rooting for them to send an incursion into the balkans while the reformation is underway so that Austria will have more important matters to attend to than my violations of Imperial Law .

[Brons]

Poland scares me. And what has the Ottoman Empire been doing? By this time they usually have way more.

[Cheese]

Ah man, in my game Austria is a tiny shell of what it once was that keeps having wars with nations it's been forced to release by big huge Bohemia, which of course, hates my guts for stealing the HRE from it and for turning protestant to form Prussia. How come you are so small? Is MM really that game-changing?

[Toady Two]

Poland is ... well ... Poland. Like it's historical counterpart it got attacked from all sides by powerful aggressors(Teutons , Russia, Bohemia and quite a few allied HRE states(including me as Bavaria)) and is constantly losing territory.

I haven't seen such peaceful Ottomans ever. They only expand into the Middle East and let Spain occupy the Holy Land without problem.

This is all bad for me as there is no country that could possibly put a hold on Mega - Austria so my only safe means of expansion is Core creeping one province at a time via the spy mission.

By MM standards I am playing hyper aggressive as I have expanded by 5 HRE provinces in a century 2 of which I have claimed unlawfully(no core). MM halves your infamy limit and has nasty random events that can make you become the badboy if you linger too close to the limit. To play safe it is advised to never go over 50% infamy and never over 8 points.

[Stworca]

The Ottomans may be playing peacefully to avoid historical Battle for Vienn 

The weirdest game i've had in EU was with the small 1 province "powers" constantly wiping each other out, gaining insane "Bad boy" scores.
Myself, playing as England, allied with Castille and together we advanced up to today's Ukraine before i lost interest

[Toady Two]

That the best thing about Magna Mundi is that as long as you don't play an overpowered country and give yourself ambitious goal it can stay interesting throughout the entire timeline. There will be enemies that are stronger then you and facing them off i gives the game better dynamic. In vanilla EU3 you would become an unstoppable superpower within the first 200 years if you played decently with a medium power and after that its just whether you want to screw around and conquer some AI nations that can't muster a proper defense. 

[Cheese]

Would it be better to get HoI2 first or go straight for AoD?

[IHateOutside]

Would it be better to get HoI2 first or go straight for AoD?

IMO, you'd be better off saving money and going straight for AoD.

[Rakonas]

Would it be better to get HoI2 first or go straight for AoD?

IMO, you'd be better off saving money and going straight for AoD.

Definitely, AoD is basically HoI2 with all expansions and then some.

[Mr.Person]

Now, that being said, it might not make for a good game. If that's the case, then yes, Paradox probably should of done a better job. I'm just saying that if Paradox is very in-depthly simulating a shitty economic system, you can't turn around and berate them when the economies of the world are shit.

While it's true that the economy of the Victorian era was deeply broken, it was broken in a different way then the game portrays.  While it's true that the big dogs pulled a lot of shenanigans in this era, there is such a thing as an equilibrium.  In Vicky 2 if a country can't export because say it's prestige is too low, it's population starves because it lacks the money to buy either foreign or domestic foodstuffs.  In the real world, if a country isn't exporting, it's going to stop importing stuff because the exchange rate is going to make imports prohibitively expensive.  Additionally, while it's possible for a country to not have enough gold to keep foreign creditors placated and cause a panic, it shouldn't experience a Vicky2 style depression of 1836.  If there isn't enough gold for the domestic market to function, prices would drop (well sorta*) until you reach a new price level where the amount of gold would be sufficient.

* This point is more complicated what with sticky prices and wages and whatnot but two things here.  First, they were less sticky in the 19th century.  And secondly, paper money would probably come to the rescue, with banks and governments being able to issue new paper until there is enough for the market to function.  Again, foreign investors wouldn't be reassured but the domestic market would function with there being enough currency for transactions.

Plus there's sea dumping which is absolutely immersion breaking.  I can understand that paradox didn't want to bother with a huge number of stockpiles.  But factories go into the red buying inputs for outputs they are just going to throw away anyway.  Nobody in the 19th century ever entertained such a silly thought.  And it happens even if you are playing a planned economy.  In Vicky 1 you were communist even if you were capitalist.  In Vicky 2 you are capitalist even if you are communist.

But still, I think that there is a lot of promise in Vicky 2.  With the PDM mod the world economy works, albeit at the price of making things a bit easy.  But I believe that with about 1 major reform to the way that money flows through the world economy, the system would work.

That explains a lot, thank you. It seems the issue is just a couple of tiny mistakes or oversights on Paradox's part that are having major reverberations down the line. That is one problem Paradox has, they don't bug test a lot and definitely don't playtest seriously at all.

So in my current game of CK:DV, Hungary broke apart. I was a count vassalized to a duke vassalized to the king of Hungary. My liege declares war on Hungary along with a bunch of other duchies. I then get a fun event that puts me at war with my rival (who happened to be my liege) and get a claim on his title (or give up the rivalry, but come on, the timing was perfect). So after kicking my liege's ass and taking his Duchy, I've been slowly stealing nearby counties and pagan lands. Meanwhile, the rest of Hungary broke apart, then got into a massive war with Poland. Poland quickly trounced Hungary with utmost speed, stole the title from Hungary, and gave it to some guy in the court. Hungary and Poland are both pretty strong, I'm hoping in the near future to take a bunch of Lithuanian pagan lands and create a kingdom there. By then, maybe the Cumans will shrink and let me conquer a bit of Russia? I dunno, we'll see what happens.

So quick question, where the heck is "Burgos"? The pope keeps calling crusades to claim it. If it's nearby, I might join in for some quick piety, something I'm going to need in the extreme near future.

[Brons]

To find a province in CK (and HoI2 and EUII) press '?'.

[IHateOutside]

IIRC its in Spain somewhere. North-Central I think.

[Mr.Person]

Hungary's problems continue. This time he DoW'd me. He's got me outnumbered 2 to 1 just based on the troops he had at the front. He's taking provinces left and right, he's cut my stack down by over a third down to 3000, and he's got this monster 10,000 stack marauding my provinces. Things are not looking good. I sneak in and take one of his two provinces, but I'm still way outnumbered. I offer to be vassalized and give him a county, but for some reason, he refuses. He had a claim on my duchy and evidentially wanted that. Well fuck him then, I take my stack and rush his other province, which by the way is a mountain one. Amazingly it's empty. Even worse for him, he didn't march his army in to stop me when he first saw me nearby. So somehow I pull a rabbit out of my ass and steal a win. Unfortunately, I was a bit low on prestige at the time and couldn't make any worthwhile claims, but hey, I still made off with a province for me and a province for my diocese bishop. Two months later the Byzantine Empire declares war on him. He gets completely flattened and has his king title taken away. The Byzantine emperor gives it away to some guy he likes.

I'm just sitting here laughing. Sure, I was like a thousand gold in debt, but the Estates General and a stability4gold event put me in the black within a few months... plus enough to make another castle. There's also some nearby prince who's locked in this eternal stalemate with the Cumans. If my badboy wasn't so high, I would totally flood in and steal me some Cuman lands. I'm also still rebuilding, my armies were just smashed to pieces. This could take awhile.

[Digital Hellhound]

If you have HoI 2, I recommend trying out the the RandRoad Mod. It creates a new world with random countries (up to 157, though my comp can't really handle that), with different sizes, randomized techs, leaders, number of units, etc. It's quite fun. There's also a similar mod for HoI3 which seems even better. The AI is kinda over-aggressive though, which can be annoying.

Best game I've had with that was an Imperial Russia that covered South America, half of North America and a chunk of Africa. I allied with the Dutch (South Asia) and tiny Lebanon (centered around Washington DC) and fought against Cambodia and Nepal over China. T'was fun.