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Author Topic: IDEA - Unofficial Code of Conduct (aka The 1776 Thread)  (Read 6198 times)

soundandfury

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IDEA - Unofficial Code of Conduct (aka The 1776 Thread)
« on: April 19, 2011, 06:03:23 am »

So it's forum drama time again.  This stuff seems to happen every few months; the lower forums go through a massive squabble, sometimes there are bans (and then of course more squabble from those who consider the bans unjust).  This time, however, it seems to be having significant consequences.

Some people are leaving.  That's no news, it happens every time there's a fight.  But this time, they, and some of the bansions, are setting up an unofficial forum.  That's the first 1776ism: they're declaring independence.  Now, since I have no wish to get myself banned, I'm not going to link to these new forums (though I'm sure someone will soon enough), nor even comment on whether they are a reasonable action to take.  But it does indicate that we can't go on ignoring the state of things any more, and people who keep saying "There is nothing wrong with Bay12Forums" are deluding themselves.

So we come to the second reason why I've called this thread '1776': reference to the Continental Congress.  What do I mean by this?  Simply, that if we want to calm this shit down long-term, we're going to have to devise a voluntary code of conduct.

Some things are already covered in the official rules, and we need not discuss them.  Some things, however, while appearing in the rules, do so in an ambiguous manner.  Not everyone is in agreement on what constitutes 'intentionally garbled language'.  Many things are not mentioned in the rules at all, but cause some people massive annoyance.  And of course there have been several large arguments and discussions about how people should handle said annoyance.

Therefore I would like to hereby open a congress whose remit is to devise a voluntary code of conduct, and invite submissions from interested parties.

As a small matter of housekeeping, here are some things which I would not like to see in this thread.
"If you don't like Bay12Forums go somewhere else."  If you don't like the congress, don't post in it.  No-one is going to force you to sign up to our code of conduct.  It is voluntary.
"It's not up to you to tell us what to do."  As I say.  The code is voluntary.  We are not forcing anything on anybody.
"There is nothing wrong with the forums."  If you like the forums as they are, you're welcome to not sign.  However, if you're not going to be constructive, please don't fill up the thread with your arguments.  If you really want to discuss the issues from yesterday's Sad Thread clusterf***, I am informed that a meta-thread is under construction.
"You're in league with / dogpiling for / bandodging for the guys from IRC."  While it is true that I hang out on IRC a lot, I also spend a lot of time reading these forums (albeit mostly lurking).  I enjoy these forums (particularly the succession forts) and don't want to see them killed.  Also, I disagree with most of the IRC 'personalities' quite often; you should see some of our legendary-scale debates.  I am not here to white-knight for Captain, Retro, or anyone else.  I am here to try and cure the issues that cause ban-worthy clusterf***s in the first place.

A few final notes for this post:
Although I've talked a bit about 1776, I'm not a Yank, and please don't feel this is some sort of US imperialism or that you need to be American to contribute.
I shall add a second post below this one for collection and collation of the points of consensus as they evolve.

Edit: I've changed the title as it was causing some confusion and some people found it pretentious.  I guess I just tend to use that kind of language.
Edit 2: changed some of the 'housekeeping' text; discussion on whether our CoC should exist at all is acceptable, so long as it doesn't turn into a hijack.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 11:12:48 am by soundandfury »
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soundandfury

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 06:03:54 am »

Suggested rules so far.  The inclusion of a rule in this list does not (currently) indicate any kind of agreement or consensus.
  • Make no post that does not advance a discussion relating to the OP and matters arising therefrom.
    So, tangential discussions are ok, but thread takeover by idiot memes isn't.
  • While placeholders are an exception to the above rule (since they will be used later to advance the discussion), they should be used sparingly and should not be treated as a means of circumventing the above rule.
    So you can't post "lol meme tilde (oh btw this is a placeholder)".
  • Before you post, take a good few seconds to actually read your post, and see if it adds something worthwhile to the conversation.
    If the post's just a quote plus "this", especially outside a forum game, then don't post it.
  • Before making a 'Watching' post, consider whether you can make a post that adds something to the discussion, thereby getting the 'watching' for free.
    Even 'Watching, because this is a good idea', 'Watching, because I really enjoy using this mod', or 'Watching, because I've encountered this bug too' are improvements.
    This one was somewhat contentious, because Notify doesn't work quite the same way as Watching-posts.  It has been toned down into the form of advice.
  • Consider: "would this discussion be more appropriate in another medium?".
    As in, does anyone other than the person you're talking to need to see that post, or would it be better to just pm them about it?
  • Before posting to ask what's going on, read the thread.
    This one is somewhat contentious, as sometimes working out what is going on can be a tad difficult (see: the Sad Thread stuff).
  • Don't post dissension in threads other than the one you have a difference of opinion about.
    Such a rule often prevents escalation of conflicts through an entire board instead of in a single thread.
  • These are suggestions, not rules.  Don't throw a fit if someone doesn't follow them.
    Yes, it means they're not being nice, but just because you put it in rules somewhere doesn't give you a right to lump extra abuse on them.  Just, you know, normal amounts of abuse and/or reporting.
  • Speak out for common sense.
    This one is somewhat problematic, as clearly opinions differ quite wildly on what common sense dictates.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 05:18:14 pm by soundandfury »
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Taricus

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2011, 06:21:18 am »

Watching this.

I think the first thing we'll need to get on is the Inane posts AKA the useless comments like saying Hi to someone and replying back in the same thread without either posts having content. That just gets annoying, it's fine for you to do that as long as the individual posts have some content.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 06:35:27 am by Taricus »
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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 06:44:57 am »

I understand the importance of talking about these "issues", but what do you think this'll change? The people who don't make stupid posts don't make stupid posts and (presumably) see no reason to start doing so, and as such their signing is superfluous. The people who do make stupid posts don't care about the fact thereof.

The only use I can see for an agreement of this sort is to set a precedent; that very well may not be concrete enough to "fix" anything.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 06:47:12 am by 3 »
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soundandfury

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 06:53:47 am »

I understand the importance of talking about these "issues", but what do you think this'll change? The people who don't make stupid posts don't make stupid posts and (presumably) see no reason to start doing so, and as such their signing is superfluous. The people who do make stupid posts don't care about the fact thereof.

The only use I can see for an agreement of this sort is to set a precedent; that very well may not be concrete enough.
Ok, that's a fair enough concern.  Basically the idea is that if enough people do sign such a thing it'll then give weight to a complaint any one of them makes in a thread.  When someone posts "lol touhou~~~~~" (whatever that means), they can reply "you know, I find that annoying, and so do lots of others".

At the moment anyone who complains is seen as an outsider, one of a very small group who can be mocked and ignored.  Without an overhaul of the moderation system (which is, apparently, not gonna happen ever), this is all we can do.

Remember also that we're not trying to write guidelines for 'how to be like us'.  We don't want to say "no silly or frivolous content"; that's still content even if we ourselves don't enjoy it (personally I have a soft spot for Complete Randomness).  The idea is to write guidelines that the stupid-post people can look at and say, "Hey, you know, we could follow these rules and still have just as much silly frivolous fun and ponies".  Then they stop making stupid posts and start making articulate, content-carrying posts.  Posts about ponies, but that's better than empty quotes, me-toos, and so on.
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Digital Hellhound

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2011, 07:34:36 am »

I'm not really familiar with, err, forum drama here, so where exactly does all this stuff happen? General Discussion, I guess?
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Acanthus117

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2011, 07:40:33 am »

Color me interested.

I'm willing to sign this thing. Lord above knows I need to curb my shitposting habits.
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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2011, 07:42:54 am »

Color me interested.

I'm willing to sign this thing. Lord above knows I need to curb my shitposting habits.
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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2011, 07:46:54 am »

Color me interested.

I'm willing to sign this thing. Lord above knows I need to curb my shitposting habits.

Don't eat me because of the quote pyramid. GD apparently blew up while I was sleeping last night so I'm going to show my support.
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soundandfury

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2011, 07:47:32 am »

I'm not really familiar with, err, forum drama here, so where exactly does all this stuff happen? General Discussion, I guess?
Mostly, yes.  The current canonical example is the shitstorm that went down yesterday in the Sad Thread, which resulted in the banning of Makrond, Dasleah, Captain and Retro (also of some 'GamerKnight' dude whom I'd never heard of before).

I usually hide in the Upper Boards to stay away from it all.  Unfortunately, the banning of (for example) Captain for posts made down here in the Lower Boards impoverishes the upper boards too.
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Acanthus117

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2011, 07:49:08 am »

Honestly, GamerKnight was asking for it.

Kept on trolling, and added nothing to the discussion but inflammatory comments and "for teh lulz".
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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2011, 07:54:22 am »

Honestly, GamerKnight was asking for it.

Kept on trolling, and added nothing to the discussion but inflammatory comments and "for teh lulz".

Yeah, I really hated him.

I didn't hate Retro or Mayday but they did technically break the rules.
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Mindmaker

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2011, 08:03:09 am »

'Technically'?
Oh the rage...

This thread is a nice idea and I wish you the best of luck, but I'm skeptic about it...
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freeformschooler

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2011, 08:05:08 am »

'Technically'?
Oh the rage...

This thread is a nice idea and I wish you the best of luck, but I'm skeptic about it...

Technically as in I don't believe they did (I agree with retro's post mortem post) but apparently whatever they did was enough for the guy that owns the house we're sitting around in to ban them.
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soundandfury

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Re: The 1776 of Bay 12: congress is now open
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2011, 08:05:51 am »

Honestly, GamerKnight was asking for it.

Kept on trolling, and added nothing to the discussion but inflammatory comments and "for teh lulz".
I didn't want to say it, because I'm trying to be strictly impartial (and not get banned) here, but... you're right.

Anyway, that's all kinda OT here; can we start working on this code?

To start things off, how about:
* Make no post that does not advance a discussion relating to the OP and matters arising therefrom.
So, tangential discussions are ok, but thread takeover by idiot memes isn't.
* While placeholders are an exception to the above rule (since they will be used later to advance the discussion), they should be used sparingly and should not be treated as a means of circumventing the above rule.
So you can't post "lol meme tilde (oh btw this is a placeholder)".
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