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[hawkeye_de]

Hey people,

I plan to develop a police/FBI like roguelike for PC(Java-based) and Android tablets (but since I plan to separate the UI from the game engine, other OS should not be that tough to do), where you can be a police officer or later be a FBI agent. Due to the nature of that setting, team-based playing (either with the AI or perhaps also multiplayer ?) is essential. The game should be realistic, so no dumb shooting but with rules of engagement, non-lethal combat etc.

I'd like to hear from you:

• how could a roguelike benefit from tablet PCs concerning usability and playing?
• do you think that you`d like to play a 'roguelike' with that non-standard setting?
• what content should be in (important for a first version)?
• would you like to have complex tactical combat, how could it look like?
• any ideas for a conversation system?
• any ideas how to 'simulate' driving in a turn-based game?
• would you even play it if it has only ASCII graphics in the beginning, thus the usability might not be that great?

When I start to develop this stuff, I plan to create a blog. Since I do this in my spare time, progress will be slow.

Thanks for your input!

[hemmingjay]

while it is certainly nice to have a rough idea for a game, it is not quite as nice to ask everyone else to design it for you, especially in the face of the fact that you state your progress will be slow. In the world of Rogue-likes spare time leads = abandoned projects typically. I would say your efforts might better be used supporting the Crime focused Roguelike and help them incorporate the ability to play from the police side as well. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64931.0

Good luck to you no matter what you choose to do.

[Ringmaster]

First things first for developing and advertising a roguelike here (Or anywhere), look up someone called Crimson King. Now don't do what he did.

You'll get support and a playerbase here quite easily with this idea. I can answer a few of your questions:

• do you think that you`d like to play a 'roguelike' with that non-standard setting?
• what content should be in (important for a first version)?
• would you like to have complex tactical combat, how could it look like?
• any ideas for a conversation system?
• any ideas how to 'simulate' driving in a turn-based game?
• would you even play it if it has only ASCII graphics in the beginning, thus the usability might not be that great?

1. Personally, I've always had an interesting in roguelikes with settings outside the usual fantasy/dungeon-diving genre, and I'd be greatly interested in playing something with a more urban setting.

2. I think, for a first version, most people will want some form of procedurally generated content (Doesn't have to be something extremely major, just randomly generated locations or inventories would work), a basic (very basic) combat system, and some way of getting quests.

3. That would be nice, but things with 'complex' in the title should probably be left until later on in development. As for tactical combat, it would be a wonderful addition to a game of this sort (Would this sort of thing involve AI partners or something along those lines?). It would probably have to be handled under several quite complex interfaces, probably with setting the general behaviour of the actors rather than giving them direct orders (Giving orders such as 'Advance' rather than 'Move to square X')

4. This would probably be best left up to the developer to decide. (The same applies to point 3)

5. I'd suggest looking to the 'Curses' forum and Liberal Crime Squad for inspiration on this. Otherwise, as in point 4.

6. Nobody here really minds ASCII or learning curves. Can't figure out why...

[Deon]

You may want to move it to Creative Projects subforum since there's no game yet .

[Deadmeat1471]

Hey people,

I plan to develop a police/FBI like roguelike for PC(Java-based) and Android tablets (but since I plan to separate the UI from the game engine, other OS should not be that tough to do), where you can be a police officer or later be a FBI agent. Due to the nature of that setting, team-based playing (either with the AI or perhaps also multiplayer ?) is essential. The game should be realistic, so no dumb shooting but with rules of engagement, non-lethal combat etc.

I'd like to hear from you:

• how could a roguelike benefit from tablet PCs concerning usability and playing?
• do you think that you`d like to play a 'roguelike' with that non-standard setting?
• what content should be in (important for a first version)?
• would you like to have complex tactical combat, how could it look like?
• any ideas for a conversation system?
• any ideas how to 'simulate' driving in a turn-based game?
• would you even play it if it has only ASCII graphics in the beginning, thus the usability might not be that great?

When I start to develop this stuff, I plan to create a blog. Since I do this in my spare time, progress will be slow.

Thanks for your input!

While I agree with Hemmingjay, I like to dabble in text games myself now and then. So...

how could a roguelike benefit from tablet PCs concerning usability and playing?
No idea.
do you think that you`d like to play a 'roguelike' with that non-standard setting?
I don't understand the question.
what content should be in (important for a first version)?
Car chases, hostage taking, swat raids, bank robbery, assault, domestic violence, gang violence, drug use/growing/policing and other common police troubles above petty theft.
would you like to have complex tactical combat, how could it look like?
Range between target and police begins at different levels. Example, in building maximum rolled range for enemy encounters would be 5 metres. In a carpark, 50 metres etc. Lots of weapons and equipment used by police, such as breaching hammers, axes, police batons, MP-5's, sidearms, Flashbangs, smoke grenades, teargas, stab vests etc. Damage done by weapons is based on the caliber of the weapon against the armor of the defender, accuracy on skill at arms.
any ideas for a conversation system?
Effected by certain things such as rebelliousness or anger or fear, if rebelliousness is too high the guy will not comply with police commands etc. Names are shit for the stats, but you get the idea.
any ideas how to 'simulate' driving in a turn-based game?
Speed is random between the cars max and a lower value, based on the area, i.e. residential or motorway. Effected by driving skill, weapons can be used by passengers. Penetration of armor based on caliber and type of round used by police.(I.E full metal jacket/armor piercing rounds will have more chance to hit a passenger in a car than hollowpoint).
would you even play it if it has only ASCII graphics in the beginning, thus the usability might not be that great?
Id play it even if it were just text, its the content and how well it works/complexity that counts.

My thoughts.

[Hugna]

Hopefully this isn't another joke topic, due to the fact how easier roguelikes are easier to make... based on what people say.

# how could a roguelike benefit from tablet PCs concerning usability and playing?

PC vs Android... i dunno what android IS. So i have no idea.

# do you think that you`d like to play a 'roguelike' with that non-standard setting?

I like having a customizable world, or hell, have one specifically designed, like a world thats like ours.. probably.

# what content should be in (important for a first version)?

Well, an important thing should be this. Firstly, there needs to be the basic necessities like combat, chatting, movement, and so on, then later making chatting more efficient to allow peaceful negotiation to try talking down criminals. Then later, since it's realistic, a forensic part, allowing investigations to continue to send others across the world to find them.

Basically, what i would do it work on movement and combat, and the start of the policeman career as a mere recruit training to handle things, from handling in keeping up with running criminals (stamina), making sure you can shoot straight... even though guns are hard without knowing how the wind and gravity pushes the bullet, which a recruit wouldn't know... and probably a lieutenant? I'm not sure.

Anyways, i don't know how law enforcement fully branches, but i think it starts from a recruit, which is trained until they pass, then pushed in as a police officer, then they work hard alongside a partner for... whatever... until you get in on some action as you patrol the streets, or whatever. I don't know whats further. Maybe you just do a lot of work until you're a lieutenant, than eventually when the chief steps down you be him? Or branch off to be a forensic specialist? Maybe control the entire police force in the roguelike? I don't know.

But yeah. Basic combat, movement, and the start of the policeman career. FBI career could come in a later version, as if i'm not mistaken, SWAT is also part of police, so theres another way to work it.

# would you like to have complex tactical combat, how could it look like?

Could be anything. A policeman can't be too rough, but if required, they can hit that point. I guess if a proper fighting system was in order, which can branch off not only in natural fighting, but maybe where they can go on vacation every now and then to have some martial arts training, they could work alot easier with melee combat.

Shooting... probably the same thing, unless you do aiming and all that on limbs. Not every cop shoots to kill, but if it's the only way to stop them, like if during a situation that requires it, not if they're running the hell away, then they'd go for the legs/arms... but if they, for example, have a hostage, and are open, it could take either two perfect snipers to blast that gun away from pointing her, but he might be able to move it back to her and shoot before you can run, so in a situation like that... you may have to go for the head, or do that gun blast thing and then the arm... but i've yet to hear of a hostage situation with more than 1 sniper.

# any ideas for a conversation system?

I've seen conversation systems that try to calm people down... i barely ever win.

Conversation is very hard, especially if you don't know what you're doing. It's more like a "try to get in their head" situation without them talking. If you can figure out how to converse right with someone, they can crack easily.

# any ideas how to 'simulate' driving in a turn-based game?

Never seen one try it, so no.

# would you even play it if it has only ASCII graphics in the beginning, thus the usability might not be that great?

Having the graphics customizable is easier, but for now, it could be kept curses, and have a text file determine what they could look like. Maybe add a way where graphics positioning is possible so people can make them look in different areas, like up, down, left, right, etc, but that would require ASCII graphics, so for now, it can go both ways.



Thats all i got on those.

[hemmingjay]

an issue that you need to address early on is gameplay. There are not many cop games and even fewer good ones due to the nature of law enforcement. Police are protectors and are also required to protect the life and rights of criminals unless there is imminent danger to the life of citizens or police officers. Police are bound by so many rules and regulations that they often can not stop criminals even if they have the means to. This brings us to the next point which is how police stop criminals when they cannot use the same level of force in most circumstances. Police use superior numbers and coordination to control circumstances allowing them a tactical advantage in unpredictable situations. When a suspect runs from the player, how will the cop catch them? Someone who is afraid will often be much faster than someone doing their job. This is why a majority of arrests are made by serving warrants with teams of law enforcement. You need to establish how you intend the gameplay to work before asking what we want to include.
Also you will need to focus on a field of law enforcement as the scope is enormous and trying to incorporate it all is game design hell. Is the player a homicide detective, meter-maid or park ranger? I would like it very much if you were successful with this game. I would like it even more if you gave yourself a chance.

[Vainemoinen]

I would say your efforts might better be used supporting the Crime focused Roguelike and help them incorporate the ability to play from the police side as well. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64931.0

I immediately thought of the crime roguelike in development when I saw this thread. It's a cool idea to be able to play as the police, but it'd be even cooler (and in some ways easier) to add that to a project that's already rolling. Also:

Good luck to you no matter what you choose to do

[Rakonas]

In terms of how to simulate driving, I'd recommend checking out LCS for some good inspiration. I haven't seen any other roguelikes attempt to simulate driving but LCS does it rather well, though it's undetailed.

[Hugna]

Is the player a homicide detective, meter-maid or park ranger?

I was close to asking in my post if a meter-maid counts as police-like branching.

[Toaster]

• how could a roguelike benefit from tablet PCs concerning usability and playing?
• do you think that you`d like to play a 'roguelike' with that non-standard setting?
• what content should be in (important for a first version)?
• would you like to have complex tactical combat, how could it look like?
• any ideas for a conversation system?
• any ideas how to 'simulate' driving in a turn-based game?
• would you even play it if it has only ASCII graphics in the beginning, thus the usability might not be that great?

1. Keep the control scheme simple.  A tablet would benefit from an easily usable menu.
2. If it looked good I'd give it a try.  Breaking the mold is always good.
3. Hmmm.  I'd think a simple plotline following semi-planned (but still procedurally generated) missions, with a secondary goal being a "skirmish" round with a single plotless mission, generated each time.  For example, a bank robbery mission where there's always robbers holed up in a bank vault, but the layout and civilian locations varies each time.
4. Yes, but I'm not familiar enough with the genre to help here.
5. Tricky.  I'm not an AI programmer, but I'd think some sort of decision tree with certain options antagonizing/calming the other party more, with it breaking off if it goes too far in one direction (surrender/attack)
6. I'd think selectable options on how close to follow, etc, with a line of choices (similar to LCS driving- "Obstacle ahead: slam brakes, swerve, or plow through?") with results dependent on your choices.
7. Ascii graphics are perfectly usable if they're clear and understandable.

[Sowelu]

Here's my advice.

Play "Police Quest".  Play "Rainbow Six" or "SWAT".  Play "Doom" and "DoomRL".  Play "AliensRL".

Borrow theme for the non-combat parts from Police Quest.
Borrow some combat from Rainbow Six or SWAT, but be very selective in what you take.
Look at the way that DoomRL took a successful theme from a successful FPS, and turned it into a successful roguelike by keeping what matters, cutting out what doesn't, and inventing new parts out of whole cloth.
Look at how different AliensRL is from DoomRL.  Many here call it a less successful game, partially because it 1) has serious balance issues, 2) is repetitive, and 3) doesn't really capture the nature of human vs. alien combat.

As for Android...As an Android coder I don't see the advantages.  You'll need to simplify combat immensely.  Check out Nethack for Android, and check out how easy/hard it is for you to use.

[Sensei]

If you actually make a police roguelike, you have to call it "Rogue Cop". 

[hemmingjay]

Sensei wins! Rogue Cop would indeed be a great title.

[Neonivek]

But Rogue cop would mean you don't do cop things... like... Arresting people