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Author Topic: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]  (Read 34163 times)

IronyOwl

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #255 on: June 08, 2011, 08:55:37 pm »

The way you get better at mafia is by playing mafia. Bad players are generally either those with certain style/commitment issues they refuse to address, or those who give up soon after trying.


That said, several of your actions were pretty bad, and could use some improvement.

In the beginning, you weren't really hunting scum so much as flailing around a bit. As a bit of a lesson, you'll notice Taricus was largely in the same boat- you stuck with it, he dropped out. Hence, you probably got better as the thread went on, whereas presumably he's not much better at mafia than he was when he joined. I assume you realize that interaction wasn't really productive now.

When you were in danger of being hammered, you still had a rather irreverent attitude, and more importantly weren't trying to find scum. You're lucky you weren't lynched.


Oh, missed that one.
Well, one has to wonder must wonder... If scum did notice such a post, would they not pay attention to it and try for two votes? There are two of them, and if they think I am going to vote for the first person to gather two votes, wouldn't they instantly team up to vote somebody out? It would make sense that is suddenly a pair jumped out of the woodwork ready to lynch, they would be scum. Although currently the only two votes together are against me, and I am not going to vote for myself, so we can assume they are either both too dumb to notice the chance, or two smart to notice it, we will never know.
Your WIFOM deserves special mention, for two reasons.

First of all, it assumes you know what the scum (or other players, for that matter) are thinking, which you don't. Some situations are more likely than others- scum is less likely to hammer one of their own than a townie, for instance- but you really don't want to wager the whole game on the assumption that you know exactly how scum would act or react in a given scenario- most of playing scum well is explicitly acting like they're not scum, after all.

Secondly, in this particular case it was an OMGUS, which usually doesn't look good. It didn't seem like anybody was especially upset with it, but responding to L-1 with "Everyone voting me is scum! Vote them instead!" usually looks like a desperate attempt at deflection.


This was pretty bad as well, because you once again assume that the hammervote must be scum if there's any scum left, which would mean scum would avoid it as blatantly obvious. You also give the bizarre explanation for voting Super as "That was in the past so I can't explain it, the point is that I'm still voting you and have reasons now." That's very bad, because you basically just admitted you had no reason whatsoever for voting Super at first.

Here is a notable post because it contains the same style of reasoning that led you to suspect Super, but clears major and indicts Okami... despite earlier claiming that Super and major were scum because if they weren't you'd have been hammered already. It's a nice example because it's both giving the wrong answer, which your earlier WIFOM wasn't (not that you could have known that), and directly contradicts that earlier WIFOMy goodness.


As for what you did right... noticing how quick Super was to vote and how eager he was to hammer was good. That was more significant in a Vengeful than it would have been in a normal game, of course, but that particular part of your suspicions about him was well-founded.

I'm not sure how much of the plan this was, and it certainly wasn't quite the right way to go about it, but managing to piss off Super also served you well- he was far too defensive about you voting him without reasons. Again, acting scummy to rile up scum usually isn't worth it, and townies can become pissed as well, but one of the reasons people tend to be so vicious in-game is to get people acting emotionally.


So yeah. Drop the WIFOM and focus more on player reactions- you'll notice the player you were right about through the whole game was the one you were focused on for his specific actions, not broad generalizations about what scum would do in Situation X.
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Okami No Rei

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #256 on: June 08, 2011, 08:55:37 pm »

Quote from: major_sephiroth
And you fucked it.

You were FAR too defensive.
Indeed.  Your defensiveness just felt off.  Really broke away from your meta.  If you're gonna be jumpy and lash out at anything that moves, you need to be consistent about it when you're scum.

Not to say I wasn't crossing my fingers when I dropped the hammer.  Good game, guys.  I had fun.
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...start thinking that everything somebody does is scummy or that everything is part of some scummy plan to be incredibly devious and mislead the town...

major_sephiroth

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #257 on: June 08, 2011, 10:45:22 pm »

If super wasn't a complete moron scum, that would've been over faster - with a different result.

If anyone wants to criticise how I played go ahead. But I won't listen to everyone.
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Think0028

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #258 on: June 08, 2011, 10:53:34 pm »

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. It's not like Okami and I were basically 100% convinced of Max being town, and how we were both already voting you, only switching to lynch your scumbuddy.
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If it scares people into posting, then yes.

If they end up lynched because they didn't post, oh well. Too bad for them. Maybe they should've tried posting.
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Max White

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #259 on: June 08, 2011, 11:01:34 pm »

Well, after reading the scumlog, I have to say that super realy should have voted for you, and saved himself when he had the chance. It would have left me the only one not voting for you, and put me in some hot water. Got lucky there when I encoraged Think and Okami to take out super first, before he had a chance to do anything.

Well, I think I have learnt a lot this game, like be as inactive as you can, and see who votes for you.  :P No, I joke, of corse, I just got lucky that major jumped in too early, instead of waiting for somebody else to put a vote on me before voting. That would have most likely been the end for me, and thrown the game in the other direction. I have no doubt that scum are willing to do what super and major were trying for towards the end, and get a supporter before they finish somebody off.

What surprised me most of all though, was how short the scum chat was. You guys had a private channel, and didn't use it to talk about the placement of each and every comma in every post you ever made? I was expecting the log to be about three times the size of the thread! Hell, you guys want to hope I never get to be scum, because your going to have to read through all my lunatic thoughts. Then again, if I get to be scum I would know who the other scum are, so less crazy guesses, right?  :P

Darvi

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #260 on: June 09, 2011, 03:41:29 am »

In game, everyone is an evil asshole out to get you.  Out of the game, we're generally a pretty amiable bunch.
I resent that.
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Darvi

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #262 on: June 09, 2011, 04:00:35 am »

Aaaaaaaall of them.
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Max White

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #263 on: June 09, 2011, 04:02:28 am »

So you all saw my awesome call, right near the start of the game, and then I had the balls to carry through with it until it bought us all a stunning victory? Cool!



Disclaimer: The fact that it was out of pure luck that I got that far is irrelevant.

chewie

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #264 on: June 09, 2011, 04:32:06 am »

Darvi?
How many people have been watching us?

I did too, and I liked it. Good game.
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Supercharazad

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #265 on: June 09, 2011, 12:55:24 pm »

*Reading scum log*
No, no super, I would have vengekilled you in a second. At not a single point was I going to vengekill anybody but you. I thought I had made that most clear.

That was the whole idea. I'd get venged and seph would still be able to win it.
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Supercharazad

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #266 on: June 09, 2011, 12:59:51 pm »

If super wasn't a complete moron scum, that would've been over faster - with a different result.

If anyone wants to criticise how I played go ahead. But I won't listen to everyone.

Chill a bit and realise that it's a game, you only get better by playing and you can't just call people morons because they lost.

Also, I'd like to point out that you said almost nothing in the scumchat :/
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Think0028

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [Game Over - Justice Prevails!]
« Reply #267 on: June 09, 2011, 01:31:32 pm »

Don't worry about it too much Super, I'd say you played an alright game. Not great, as you did get fished out, but alright.
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If it scares people into posting, then yes.

If they end up lynched because they didn't post, oh well. Too bad for them. Maybe they should've tried posting.
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lordnincompoop

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [5/5] - Day 1
« Reply #268 on: June 09, 2011, 03:26:17 pm »

So, who wants to get some postgame comments, then? I'll probably reread the thread, see what I can say after that.

Irony, a scum IC would probably have been good, yeah.

If super wasn't a complete moron scum, that would've been over faster - with a different result.

Hey, keep the snark in the game, okay? Remember what happened to Book.
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Vector

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Re: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1 [5/5] - Day 1
« Reply #269 on: June 09, 2011, 04:11:11 pm »

If super wasn't a complete moron scum, that would've been over faster - with a different result.

Hey, keep the snark in the game, okay? Remember what happened to Book.

Bro, I think we can keep the snark within the game without resorting to horror stories about That One Who Didn't And Got Permabanned.

Book wasn't just about his snark.  It was a big, compounded problem that I think most of the people here would rather forget about.
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